Unlocking A Better Model For Launching Products With Marcelo Calbucci

Skot Waldron (00:00.378)
Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Unlocked, where we talk about unlocking the potential of you, the people you work with, and the people you do life with. At the time of this recording, I’m offering all of you, yes, my lovely listeners, a
free 15 minute communication coaching call. You come with some kind of communication problem, and I give you a solution. My calendar link is in the show notes so check that out.

How many of you get really excited when you are about to launch a new product, new project, some new initiative, some new idea you’re going to come together and talk about and you go into the meeting and everybody just kind of sits there and they’re kind of like okay who are we what are we doing, who’s going to start and you’re kind of just like, it’s like, it takes a minute to like get it rolling. Once it gets rolling, it’s great. And it kind of maybe goes all over the place. Maybe it’s a little scattered here, scattered there. And by the end of the meeting, sometimes you think, well, that was awesome. And then other times you go, that seemed like a big waste of time. I don’t even know what we’re doing. I don’t know who’s doing what and where we’re going and why we had so many people in that meeting and why did they all have to be there? Those are very expensive meeting. And so you’re thinking about all these things.

Well, Marcelo Calbucci is going to introduce you to a framework today called the PRFAQ. And he’s going to tell you what that means, first of all, but also how it can, I guess, transform the way that you develop and initiate ideas about product development and project development and ideation and how we move forward on something. We don’t have to waste a lot of time. We don’t have to waste a lot of money or a lot of people’s resources. Like we can do things more efficiently and better. And this is where that comes from.

Marcelo is an entrepreneur, technologist, innovator, and author with over twenty-five years of experience in the tech industry. He has held key roles at Microsoft and Amazon which where he discovered this model, and has founded and led startups in both Seattle and London.

So he has lived in very rainy, gloomy areas of the world, but his spirit is bright. His ideas are bright. So we’re going to share those here on the show. Here we go, Marcelo.

Marcelo, it’s good to have you on the show. Thanks for being on.

Marcelo Calbucci (03:47.768)
Thank you for having me, Skot.

Skot Waldron (03:49.336)
Yeah. I’m interested here to talk about this framework that you have come into in your life. And so much so that you wrote a book about it and, this “PRFAQ Framework” and it’s like five letters, PRFAQ, but really, we’re talking PR and FAQ like two separate components, but we just smash them together.

First of all, tell us the backstory of why that. How that came about. And then, we’ll go from there. I kind of want to understand why they’re smashed together like that too.

Marcelo Calbucci (04:30.594)
Yeah. So, just to be clear, so people don’t get very confused, PRFAQ stands for Press Release and Frequently Asked Questions. And I came about this framework that was invented by Amazon when I joined the company a few years ago. And before that, I’ve been an entrepreneur for almost 20 years, and I never felt that there was a framework that was really good for discussing vision and strategy. And when I joined Amazon, everyone at Amazon uses PRFAQ to, you know, discuss and decide about a new product, a new business, a new program policy, yada yada. So, and this is very frequently used, like, widely used frequently. So, as soon as I joined on my first week, I was exposed to this framework, and at first, you feel like this is weird, because you’re reading this press release about a product that doesn’t exist, it’s in the future, you know, it’s all fictional.

But then after the second or third one, you realize the power that it has in both conveying an idea but also articulating that idea and helping people debate it. So, I really like it. And when I left Amazon, I was like, oh, I’m going to write a bunch of articles about PRFAQ because I think it’s really useful for lots of founders and executives or innovators. And I was like, why not write a book?

So, I end up writing a book published just a couple months ago, and now you can learn about how Amazon makes its strategic decisions.

Skot Waldron (06:06.722)
Okay. So, you’re saying you go into this meeting and you’re talking about, you’re brainstorming out a potential product that’s coming out. Okay. And then somebody slides a press release in front of you and says, Hey, here’s a press release on this thing. And you’re like, well, that’s weird. Cause this thing isn’t even out yet. Like, and so, who wrote the press release? I mean, is that the marketing department? Is it like, does it matter? I mean, is it, I mean, what’s the idea behind all that?

Marcelo Calbucci (06:33.228)
Yeah, it’s not the marketing department. That’s one mistake that people make. This is not a real press release. This is a product press release. It’s usually written by a product leader or a director or a technology leader or whomever is going to be driving this project. And it’s not being written so it’s sent to the press. It’s written so everyone can agree that that is the vision that we are pursuing. Right? And the meaning is weirder than what it describes, Skot.

What it is is, you enter the meeting, you have a six-page document. A PRFAQ is a six-page document. The first page is press release, and then you have five pages of FAQs. And you read that document in the meeting in silence. And you make your notes. If it is a printed document, you make notes on the side. If it is an additional document, you make the notes in the document online. And then the meeting starts.

So, the first 20 minutes, no one talks anything, no one says anything. Then the meeting starts, and then people start discussing the merits of that idea. A lot of work already went into it, right? Very likely the people in the meeting have participated in helping shape that idea and the FAQs and everything that goes there. But it helps everyone to be on the same page, right? And then you can have very fruitful conversations about strategy and vision.

Skot Waldron (08:01.358)
Okay. This is really cool. When I was doing a lot of brand strategy work, I didn’t do as much from the PR side, but I did have this, this exercise where I would, and I’ll do it with leaders now too, and internal teams where I’ll talk to them about, you know, write your obituary, you know, write you’re, you know, what would people say about you? What would this obituary say about your team or about you as a leader if you weren’t here anymore? Like this hypothetical situation to kind of put people in the frame of mind of not getting so in the weeds of like the thing today, but like really projecting what we would want. What do we want to be able to be able to say or think about in the future?

There’s that exercise and the other one would be you know, when I was doing some brand strategy work, it was going back into, I want you to list out every single problem that would possibly come up with you putting your brand out into the world. What would people be running into? What are the problems they would have? And then I would say, now you could use that for your FAQ section on your website or for your brochure that you’re putting out or whatever. Cause people would be like, how do I use this thing? And I’d like.

This list of questions and problems of things that people are going to be at, that’s what you’re going to use your FAQ. You’re going to make your FAQs out of this thing. Right. And so, I don’t know. I think I was coming from that end, but you’re talking about starting with the end in mind and reverse engineering it.

Marcelo Calbucci (09:38.482)
Yes. At Amazon, that’s called working backwards, right? So, you start by deciding the outcome that you want, right? Both for the company and for the customer. What problem are you solving for the customer? And what is the impact for the company that you’re building this? And then you work backwards to establish a vision and strategy for that. Not necessarily a plan or a roadmap, not the details, but the big picture. Like, why are we doing this? And what is important right now? And what do customers expect? What is the solution? What are they solving this problem today? So, you’re thinking very high level. So, everyone is on the same page before they go like, yes, let’s execute on this initiative, right? New product, new business, service, whatever you’re doing.

Skot Waldron (10:22.874)
So why is this more helpful in your eyes than skidding into a room and brainstorming together and just starting to like just hit the ground running out of the gate and just starting to build from the front.

Marcelo Calbucci (10:39.756)
Yes, so there is a lot there, right? I think one of the key aspects that people don’t understand, or they understand but don’t articulate is that writing is a form of thinking. And writing is very powerful to help you with critical thinking. Contrary to create a diagram or a presentation where you can leave gaps on your idea, it’s very hard to write well and clearly by leaving gaps, right?

Our brain doesn’t like when we write a paragraph that is not coherent. So, you feel like uncomfortable with it. You’re like, I’m not gonna share this with anyone. It’s not coherent, right? So, you feel the need to go and think through it and articulate that idea better or understand the gaps that you have on your knowledge and call out, well, this is an assumption or this is hypothesis or like this I know and you write something that is coherent.

So, it really helps the person out there in the PRFAQ think more clearly and deliver something that makes sense from beginning to end. That’s one aspect of it. The other aspect is for the reader, right? For the people that are reviewing this. When you are observing someone present something, you put your mind in a different state, right? You are taking information. You’re not processing information. Like you’re being lectured.

So, I call that presentation a type of push mechanism. It’s a way to push information to people. Writing and reviewing a document is a pull mechanism. You’re like you’re asking people to provide you with feedback on that content. So, people put their mindset in a different state. They’re like, oh, okay, I’m contributing to this document. I’m not just being told this is what we’re gonna do. So that is also the power of the PRFAQ. It helps you know, people collaborate very effectively to the point that when it gets to the end of a project, meaning the end of a PRFAQ, everyone already contributed to the document, right? All sides of the business provided that feedback and that was coherently incorporated by whoever is owning this project.

Skot Waldron (12:51.834)
So, there’s a, I like this push and pull idea. Like this is really interesting. So, do you think that there is an element of push still and an element of pull? Do you think there’s both or is it really just trying to pull and not necessarily push?

Marcelo Calbucci (13:09.678)
There is both. However, the purpose of the PRFAQ is to find the truth, right? Not to lie to each other, not to pretend that this is gonna be great and not work. Like you wanna find data and stories that present an idea for a product that is coherent and that you did the background research to make sure that like users want this, what is on the market? Like what is the possibility that we can build this, right? The feasibility of this. Is this going to be viable for the business or not?

So, you want people to look at that from all different angles. So, at the end of a PRFAQ, you’re going to have two choices. Basically, you’re going to say like, yes, this is a good idea. Let’s go execute on it. Like everyone is, you know, on the same page. Or no, like this is not the right opportunity for us or not the right opportunity right now. Right. So, it’s a decision too as well. And at Amazon, it’s very much used as a decision too, right. Like at the end, PRFAQs are go or no go.

Skot Waldron (14:12.356)
So that’s interesting too, because it helps quickly make that decision. Once you boil things down, you’ve kind of picked things apart and understood what the thing is. I guess what you’re saying is like, hey, we can come to a really clear decision here based on this information. I want to talk about also the problem, I guess. And you have this article on your website that I’m looking at right now. It’s like “Meet the Four Horsemen of Product Strategy.” Um, which the four horsemen idea is really interesting to me. Um, you know, you talk about that in, in relation to, there’s some dynamics about communication and the horsemen that come in and can sabotage different parts of communication and what you’re doing with somebody, whether it’s marriage or some other relationship in your life. And one of the, a couple of the things you pulled out here, I’m assuming these are the problems that companies usually dive into and are experiencing and why they would need a PRFAQ model to help combat these four issues. Am I right?

So, we’ve got ignorance, arrogance, misalignment, and short-termism? I mean, is that what we’re battling here?

Marcelo Calbucci (15:40.012)
Well, I would say what most companies are battling is a lack of strategy. It’s not even that they have a bad strategy. Like they don’t have a strategy. They call it a strategy. Yeah, they call it a strategy. And here is our strategy. It’s like to increase revenue this year. Like that’s not a strategy, right? Let’s be very clear about that. Strategy requires some choices between things that you want to do. And these are hard choices sometimes, like because we want to do everything, right? And we want to be going to serve everyone, but you are putting boundaries on your product.

Skot Waldron (15:54.658)
Yeah, right. huh.

Marcelo Calbucci (16:09.962)
Or other type of business that you have. So that is a strategy for me. When I talk about the horsemen is more like, hey, these are things that really going to impact when you are making product strategy decisions. So, I tell people to be careful. What the problem the PRFAQ is addressing is really: one, the lack of product strategy. Two, the lack of clarity on product strategy. Sometimes people don’t really understand or don’t really comprehend, and that’s primarily because product strategy was done via a presentation tool like PowerPoint or Google Slides. And number three is that the strategy has not been disseminated throughout the company. I say there was a little test to understand your company’s which is ask five people to write what they think the strategy is.

Isolated and then come together and read those and see if they are the same, see if they align, see where they don’t align. That is a very big problem in companies today. And the way it manifests itself is you have lots of alignment meetings, you have lots of OKRs that conflict with other OKRs, you have lots of email exchanges that are super long because people are trying to understand what’s going on here. Well, what’s going on is people are not rolling in the right direction or in the same direction, right? It’s not even the right direction; it’s the same direction because they don’t agree what the strategy is.

Skot Waldron (17:42.202)
Yeah, that’s so true. So true. I think that companies, they get so fixated on what I called, you know, the battle of the day, the boots on the ground, how are we moving in what direction are the troops going and what equipment are we using to fight the battles of the day, but they’re not thinking about the war and how they’re going to win the war. They’re so concerned with losing the battle of the day that they lose the vision, the overall strategy of where we’re going, what we’re doing and how we’re going to get there. So, the PRFAQ model is really interesting to me to think about that. When you’re using it, when you say somebody out of the gate wants to just kind of like experiment with this thing. We’re kind of going, all right, Marcelo, you got me hooked. I’m interested. Just experiment. I feel a lack of clarity. I feel a lack of alignment within my team about what we’re trying to do and where we’re trying to go. Let’s try this exercise. First of all, how much time does it take to do it? And what are expected outcomes from that first initial meeting?

Marcelo Calbucci (18:56.768)
It takes about two weeks for you to go through the motions of the PRFAQ, to write one, to review with certain groups of people. You’re do review with, depending on the size of your organization, with multiple people at once and then another batch and then another batch. So, we’re incorporating that feedback. The idea of the PRWFAQ is that it is a document and a process that you go through before you commit to doing a project.

So, everything starts with a spark of an idea. Like, hey, there was this opportunity we should pursue or there was this challenge we should address. And like the first thing you should do is not like, let’s write a plan to tackle that. No, the first thing should be, let’s write a PRFAQ to talk about it and to think through it. Right? So, we can have clarity on what we’re pursuing. Right? So, you do that for about two weeks. And at the end you make a decision like, all right, is this the opportunity that we thought it was? Right? Or even the opportunity has merged and evolved into a much better opportunity.

So now you have a time to decide, should we do this now or should we do this later or should we not do it? Because the problem for the customer wasn’t as big as we expected, or the challenge wasn’t that interesting or valuable right now for us to address. So really, you do that very early on. And I would say you can do that for any kind of project. I’ve done that for the book itself.

So, before I wrote the book, I wrote a PRFQ about the book. Like who is the customer? What problem I’m trying to solve for them? How are they solving today? So, I wrote that PRFQ to help me clarify the ideas that I would incorporate in the book. So, you can do from a single project, single person project, all the way to a corporation.

Skot Waldron (20:42.65)
I like that. I mean, you better have used it on your own projects. You know, you gotta use your own stuff. Marcelo, that’s really good. If it’s okay. So, when I’m going into the, I’m assuming I do the PR piece. Well, I guess I’m saying I would do that first, but it’s just one document. The PRFAQ is one document and is there a framework? Is there a template? Is there something that I should use? Like a list of questions, I can pull out to start working on both of those ideas that one document together.

Marcelo Calbucci (21:16.204)
Yes. So, you actually write the document from the bottom to the top, right? The press release is the last piece that you’re gonna write. And on the FAQ sections, it’s divided into sections. There is the customer FAQs and the internal FAQs.

The customer FAQs are fictional questions as if the customer were asking you, right? For example, how much this is gonna cost? Where do I get started? How long it takes me to set up the system? What else do I need to start using it? So, you answer questions in the voice of the customer.

The internal FAQ is where the interesting stuff happens, right? You’re talking about the viability, the feasibility, and the value of the product. So, you’re going to have questions like what problem are we addressing for the customer? And then you have an answer for that that explains the problem and tries to quantify that as well. Like how many customers, how important, how severe, how urgent, is it growing or shrinking? All those things get incorporated on internal FAQs.

In the book, I have a list of over 80 questions that you can use. I also have a template on the website that people can download. But the idea is really so you can articulate the problem, articulate the solution, and articulate how you’re going to get this to market, right? In terms of not a plan per se, but like, high level strategic plan.

Skot Waldron (22:45.656)
Okay. So, you’ve got resources. And that’s interesting that you start with the FAQs and then move into the PR more of the high level thought behind the whole thing. You’re, starting with like the bits, know, individual elements of the questions using that to kind of build the press release to explain the main idea of the whole thing. Am I right?

Marcelo Calbucci (23:14.956)
Yes, and in the book, I explain a methodology for you to go through the motions, right? So, what you do is, first of all, you collect a bunch of information. You collect links, you collect bullet points, ideas, right? Then you try to collate and organize them into themes, right? This is about pricing, this is about distribution, this is about the problem of the customer, this is about competitors. So, you group that information, then you write your FAQs. And there is a particular way to write the FAQs as well.

First, you start with the FAQs that are about facts, right? Problems that customers have are facts. They are not opinions, right? They’re not assumptions. They might be assumptions, actually. They’re not hypotheses, but they are either facts or assumptions. And if they are assumptions, you should try to eliminate those assumptions and make into facts. Then you have FAQs that are about your solution. How you can address that problem. And that is fully in the world of hypothesis, because you don’t know. You’re just assuming that if you do this thing, customers are going to like it, it’s going to solve their problem, and they’re going to find it as well. So, you write first the facts, then the hypothesis, and then you go to the press release.

Skot Waldron (24:28.996)
Okay. Good. I like the thing about why this stuff even works. Why do we even care? Why is this an alternative to what we normally would do? And why is this so much better in your opinion as to why we’re doing this. So, when we talk about human behavior, when we talk about how we operate within teams and as leaders and trying to bring about something new. What is the idea behind why this kind of stuff works in your eyes, just from a psychological standpoint of why we behave the way we do?

Marcelo Calbucci (25:13.048)
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of things going on here. The first one is when you’re writing and you’re trying to make things coherent, you’re gonna identify a lot of things that you don’t know, right? And that is part of the curse of knowledge. Like, can you explain to people the things that you do know in a way that they would understand it well? So, when you’re writing, you’re forcing yourself to clarify your own thinking and then find where you have gaps and go to get information about it. The second thing that happens, is too many times in brainstorming sessions or like meetings that are based on presentations, what you have is an authority or seniority level impact on the discussions and conversations. The PRFAQ avoid that type of group thinking and the type of seniority bias, let’s call it this way, right? Because everyone can provide feedback on the document, even asynchronously, even offline, right? And then what you’re getting is the best information. What often happens is when you are in a meeting with lots of executives, lots of important people, lots of senior people, if the senior people say something, then it’s very unlikely that people are gonna challenge that, right? So, you end up cornering yourself into a way of thinking that is not very productive. It’s not truth-seeking. That’s what I call. The other thing as well is we have a lot of confirmation bias. You know, it’s just our nature and when you’re writing, like you have a chance to challenge that a little bit, right? And when other people provide you feedback, there is even another chance to challenge that. And confirmation bias comes in the way when you say like, most of our users like the feature this way. And then when you write that, by the way, there was a very specific way to write a PRFAQ called precise writing. When you write that, you can’t write most users. You have to say like how many. And then it forces you to go find that data. And when you go find that data and you realize, that’s not what I was thinking. It’s 43% of customers. It’s not most, it’s high. But now I have very concrete data that I can make decisions on.

Skot Waldron (27:39.096)
Yeah, I think we could use that in a lot of places in life. Just the idea of forcing me to go out and actually look for the thing when I don’t want to because maybe it will prove me wrong, is a humbling exercise in and of itself. So, I like that. I like the idea of the power dynamics that are at play. And we see that a lot.

Marcelo Calbucci (27:55.17)
Yes.

Skot Waldron (28:08.22)
I see that a lot inside teams don’t feel open sharing their ideas for fear of being reprimanded. I mean, psychological safety plays into a lot of this. I’m assuming as well. The ability that I guess, well, let me talk about that. I mean, that just sparks an idea too. How well does this work in cultures where there isn’t psychological safety?

Marcelo Calbucci (28:18.572)
Yeah. Yeah.

Skot Waldron (28:34.362)
Does it still work? I mean, does this prove a safeguard for that? Or do you still think it’s a problem?

Marcelo Calbucci (28:39.854)
I think, well, let me think a little bit about this. I think it makes things better. It probably doesn’t eliminate all the issues when you have a very dysfunctional organization where our leaders are really overpowering ideas or people to do it their way, right? It’s a very top-down organization. I think PRFAQ helps people participate, but it’s not only sharing ideas. Sometimes people identify problems that are critical to a new idea, but they don’t vocalize it, they don’t say it because they are afraid, they’re going to be labeled as negative, or they don’t want to suffer the consequences of saying something like that. PRFAQ really helps eliminate some of that. So, if you’re a software engineer and you’re a document and you say like, wait a second, we can’t do that. Or if we did do that, it’s going to cost us $100,000 a month. Right? Maybe some AI idea. So, you provide even a junior software engineer with the opportunity just to make a note there and say like, hey, this this might not be, you know, feasible or even viable financially. So, like people can take that information and decide like, yeah, we understand. We decided that this is strategically important. We’re going to do it anyway. Or they might say, we didn’t know that. Right? So now we need to incorporate that knowledge into the PRFAQ.

Skot Waldron (30:11.812)
Yeah, there’s something interesting about this is that it’s inviting critique, without people feeling, cause critique word is, is kind of loaded. Some people have really horrible experiences with the word critique. Every all critique is negative, et cetera, et cetera, but when you have this exercise, when you’re basically making it part of the rule that everybody comes in and redlines this thing. Everybody’s kind of asking questions and adding insights and whatnot. They’re critiquing the document. Therefore, you’re not critiquing a person, you’re critiquing the document, which there’s some interesting things at play there. Some people are like, I don’t want to critique anybody ever. It’s like, who am I to do that? And so, there’s that side of it that’s really interesting.

Marcelo Calbucci (30:58.21)
Yes. So let me tell you something interesting about PRFAQ. You don’t include the name of the author.

Skot Waldron (31:11.738)
Mmm. Okay.

Marcelo Calbucci (31:12.75)
So, people can focus on the content and the merit of the idea, not on the people that were involved in creating the document. An idea should be more than whomever put the idea in place, right? Like you really want to look at the merits of the problem and the solution and the distribution.

Skot Waldron (31:33.108)
That’s part of the brilliance of this thing, right? And that, people are invited to, but here’s what I’ll say too. So, when I’m coaching a lot of leaders, I will talk about the idea of a communication code. Communication is I’m transmitting something and you’re receiving something, but there’s five different ways that we can communicate. One is critique, celebrate, collaborate, care, and clarify. Those are the five different communication codes.

And when we’re talking, you’re using two of these and they’re the ones that I find are most prominent in an organization. Number one is, people are really good at critiquing. There’s a lot of people that are really good at just critiquing. They’ll come and critique your work all day long, usually in higher level, leadership roles. I’ll do that. But then what do we want most is clarity. People will critique all day, but they really want clarity back, and receiving that kind of community, that way they can do their job better.

So, what you’re doing with this document is you’re providing both the opportunity for critique and shaping and molding, but also the ideas that we’re all getting clarity back, which is the prominent communication code that we all want.

Marcelo Calbucci (32:49.346)
Yes, that’s correct. I think the document really drives clarity, but also through collaboration. It’s not just a one-way communication tool. It’s like you’re going back and forth on this to make it better. Everyone is working together, basically. You’re building a house, and everyone is giving their perspective on how we should do this right. And there’s people that understand more about plumbing. There’s people that understand more about electricity or drywall. So, if everyone provides the feedback, then this thing works well.

Skot Waldron (33:19.886)
That’s really cool. love it. So, I saw on your website and I didn’t ask you about this before the show, but I’m interested. You have this, this workshop that you’re putting in, it’s kind of a beta thing that you’re doing. Can you tell us about that? Is that something you want to talk about?

Marcelo Calbucci (33:38.264)
Sure, yeah. I’m going to run a workshop to see how people want to learn about this, right? So, I’m going to put a plan together to teach it, but I’m actually seeking feedback. It’s a workshop that I’m going to teach this, how to do this, and we’re going to try some hands-on thing. But primarily, I’m trying to learn how people learn about the PRFAQ.

Skot Waldron (34:01.818)
Okay, awesome. And the book is out there. How else can people learn about this thing? Your website has a lot of good resources on it too, for sure.

Marcelo Calbucci (34:08.62)
Yeah, the best place to go is the book website. So, you can go to Google and search for PRFAQ book, and the book website is going to be one of the first results there. And from there, you can find examples, templates, articles, lots of resources to learn about, and even how to buy the book.

Skot Waldron (34:29.496)
Yeah, that’s awesome. Very cool. Marcello, this has been really informative and, you know, talking tools and methodologies is an execution is really helpful. Cause people can do something with it. And so, I don’t have a lot of these types of episodes on this show but every now and then I do get somebody that comes up with like this really cool framework that I wanted to highlight.

So, really appreciate you being on and, sharing the gold with this man. Thanks for all you’re doing.

Marcelo Calbucci (35:03.054)
Thank you for having me.

Skot Waldron (35:32.496)
The PRFAQ is here to introduce you to a better way. A better way of working, a better way of developing products, a better way of developing ideas and initiatives that you want to launch. And maybe you don’t have a specific product, like a physical thing, but that doesn’t matter. This applies to all. It’s the way of thinking. It’s a way of processing information with the end in mind. Do you think with the end in mind? It creates a way for us and vision, and also empathize with the people that we are targeting and that we are building this thing for. We have to be thinking about that. Most of us get in this idea of like, oh my gosh, that’d be a great idea. We get super excited about the idea, and we think it’s awesome, but maybe nobody else does. And this is a way to kind of flush that out. We have to humble ourselves. We have to be open. We have to make sure that we’re there to build and not tear down and make sure that we are moving in the right direction. All of us. That’s what we want to be doing.

I’m really, really grateful for Marcelo. I’m grateful for the idea that he’s brought to the table. The idea of this book, the PRFAQ, the workshop. Hopefully by the time you hear this, it hasn’t happened yet. Um, if it has, maybe he’s holding another one. I don’t know, this is a beta project he’s trying, so hopefully he gets some good feedback and launches more of these workshops. But please go to the website and check out more information on him. Thanks.

If you wanna find out more information about me or check out the show notes where there’s gonna be more information and links to the things referenced in this episode, visit skotwaldron.com. And lastly, I’m asking for a little bit of love. Just a little bit. So please take a moment, follow, rate the show, the algorithms like that, it helps me get the word out. I really appreciate it, thank you. And until next time, stay Unlocked.