Hi welcome to another episode of Unlocked today. I've got Stevie Cromer who is going to educate us, empower us, and give us some great insights about everything DE and I. This conversation is truly real. You can hear the care in her voice and the way she wants to be a champion for the diverse communities that we are all part of. And where she works at LUNA, I would say they're a leading organization in this effort and putting somebody like her in that's in charge of people and culture, she's the director of people and culture there just says something. I know a lot of organizations are starting to implement culture roles inside of their companies, which is really, really great.
Stevie shares some things that LUNA does to start the ball rolling in that space, and how should they empower people through psychological safety and relationship building and talking about those special topics that will help bring this whole organization, this whole movement into the present-day workplace and the things that we're trying to do here to help people everyone, no matter color, age, shape, disability, whatever that everybody feels valued, heard, understood, and that there's a place for them. I'm truly grateful for this conversation. It's going to be really, really impactful for you. It was for me, so let's get on with it.
Skot Waldron:
Stevie, it is so good to have you. I'm truly excited about this. How are you doing?
Stevie Cromer:
I'm doing well. How are you today, Skot? I'm so happy to be here.
SKOT WALDRON:
I am so full of life. This is so good. Number one, I'm just going to start out right out of the gate, right? Let's just start with the hair. I know people are going to be curious about the hair because one, if they go to your Linkedin profile, the image is a bit different than what they're going to see right now on the screen. So, your longer hair, if people are just listening to this, Linkedin image, short gray hair, right?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
But now you have longer hair. Can we go there now, or should we use that-
STEVIE CROMER:
We can add...
SKOT WALDRON:
... as a teaser?
STEVIE CROMER:
No, we can absolutely go there now, totally okay. And this is a good catalyst to change my picture on LinkedIn. So, I will go do that as well. I am about to turn 47, have had gray hair noticeably since I was in my early 20s. Both of my parents had this beautiful white striking gray hair and always hated me for coloring it, but I colored it most of my life. And through the pandemic and then also working in the space that I'm working in and working really hard to create psychological safety and an environment of inclusion at work, really tried to embrace my authentic self and what that really means, and finally felt some freedom to embrace my authentic self which included my gray hair.
I took the opportunity during COVID and during the shutdown to start the process. And I will totally admit that the first six months were really hard, and that unevenness. I was coloring at a really dark brown which was my natural color when I was younger. So, it was a really big contrast, but now that it's here, I love it and I own it. And I wish I would have done it years and years ago. Anyone contemplating it, it's funny I get lots of questions from women especially a lot that are like, "How did you do it, and I can't imagine." And I always tell them it's been incredibly empowering. It's just been empowering to not feel I have this piece of myself that isn't as authentic as I want it to be.
STEVIE CROMER:
So, it's been a really great positive thing for me that really has been a direct result of where I'm working and the work I'm doing too. It all ties in together.
SKOT WALDRON:
Oh, that's so cool. It's an outward expression of your inner commitment, right?
STEVIE CROMER:
It is, absolutely.
SKOT WALDRON:
And that is authenticity and that's real, and I love it. I love it, I love it.
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
It's so cool.
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, thanks for asking. Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah, so because my mom, I mean she's 76 I think. Don't listen to this mom. She dyed her hair for years, right? And then she was diagnosed with cancer last year, lost it all. Then it's growing back and it's this short, white, beautiful hair. We're like, "Mom, don't you ever dye your hair again."
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
Get rid of those wigs that are not your natural hair color and use your beautiful, new hair color, right?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it is stunning.
SKOT WALDRON:
It looks great. So, let's talk a little bit about this topic of inclusion. This is a super strong hardcore passion of yours.
STEVIE CROMER:
It is.
SKOT WALDRON:
DEI and what that is and talk to us a little bit about your position over, and talk about how you're infusing your passion into the people and the culture over there.
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, absolutely. LUNA is an interpreting and translation agency. And we provide services in over 200 languages all around the world. We're based in Indianapolis, but we provide services all over the world. And our staff very much represents the communities we serve. Our staff today is about 55 full-time people, and then we have a contractor base of over a thousand. And out of those 55 full-time people, we represent 16 different cultures. That's not only different races and ethnicities, but also members of the deaf and hard of hearing community, because we also provide American sign language services. I'm the director of people and culture, and a huge part of that is diversity, equity, and inclusion work and also just creating what we like to call a culture of care.
What that means is really creating psychological safety in an environment where people can bring their whole selves to work, and that all goes back to inclusion, right? It's letting everybody show up every day as the entire person that they are. So, that means, for example, one of the ways that we do this that is really powerful is in our office, we have a family wall. And it's a wall where we have a picture frame of every staff member and who or whatever they consider their family. For some people, that's kids and parents and brothers and aunts and uncles. For some people, that's pets. For some people, that's friends. There are no rules around it.
It's whatever anybody wants to include in the family wall, but we actually have that up on a wall in the office as a way to demonstrate to people you don't have to forget about your family when you come to work every day. You don't have to hide that maybe your kids struggling in school or your parents in Burma are really in a difficult, challenging, harrowing situation. We want to know about that. We want to support you in that. We want to be part of that with you. So that in the end, they feel cared for and included in our environment and in the end, become more effective and efficient employees, it all is circular and it all comes back together.
My role, I've been with LUNA about seven and a half eight years, and my role has transitioned quite a few times over that time period. But for the last few years, I've been in this people and culture position. And I would say the DEI and inclusion part of it really came to a head during COVID and with George Floyd, and all that went on. It really became a personal passion for me and something that I really wanted to do my own personal audit and my own personal journey on diversity, equity, inclusion which I then fortunately was in the position at LUNA to then also bring that into my role. For example, one of the things that that led to was creating this onboarding curriculum, where we divide up into small groups.
Our entire staff has gone through the program. We divide up into small groups of about five or six people, and we spend 21 days. And the whole idea was it takes 21 days to build a habit. The idea was to try to get people more intentionally thinking about the information they're taking in, be it through reading, social media, videos, TV, pop culture, whatever you're doing and to make it more diverse. We spend seven days on race and ethnicity and culture, seven days on sexual and gender identity, and then seven days on disability. And every morning, they get a TED talk or a magazine article or something to read. And then for that seven days on that focus.
And then at the end of that, we had a small group discussion where we just share what we learned, what we talked about, what we're interested, what we want to know more about. And the groups are intentionally incredibly diverse in terms of all those different pieces that we're looking at. So, it's a way to create the safety in these spaces to have these really challenging conversations, and it's really just been... I feel so fortunate that my personal passion of DEI has aligned with my job at the same time to be able to create these programs and do these things that have not only given back to me personally, but then also really have heavily impacted our organization and the staff, and how everybody feels cared for and supported.
And it's allowed us to have conversations at LUNA that I think are incredibly challenging to have in lots of organizations, but it's created a sense of intention and a sense of welcoming to our staff that these conversations are allowed and appreciated, and that we want them to be a part of it.
SKOT WALDRON:
And that is because you've created an area of psychological safety within your environment to be able to have those conversations, right?
STEVIE CROMER:
Right.
SKOT WALDRON:
That people feel free to speak up, challenge, and almost be vulnerable or take risks without fear of being reprimanded in some way, shape, or form, right? And-
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
... how did you get to that point?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, I think the first thing that we did that really was instrumental in creating that psychological safety was we instituted what we call our LUNA stories. At our monthly staff meeting, it's really about a third of our staff is out in the community every day interpreting and being with our primary stakeholders. And then the rest of us obviously are in the office, but it's the only day of the month where we all are in the office together. And this has obviously shifted a little bit with COVID. But pre-COVID and in the near, near future, we will all be back together in the office, and we do the normal staff meeting stuff, right?
We have business updates, talk about the things that we need to do, but then we intentionally reserve the last 15 to 20 minutes for somebody to give their LUNA story. And similar to the family wall that I mentioned, we try not to put a lot of rules and boundaries around it, because we want people to feel some freedom to express themselves and to share whatever part of them. They want to share with our staff, but the intention behind it is just for people to get to know one another a little bit better and create connection points between our staff. So, they are inclined to develop deeper relationships and have more interesting, not more interesting, but have more intimate conversations maybe.
With these stories, as they kept progressing and more people kept sharing, we were hearing stories of people's personal journeys, escaping their countries that were in the middle of war. We were hearing people's stories about coming out to their families as a member of the LQBTQ plus community. We were hearing stories about a hearing person who's a member of a deaf family, and how he navigated that growing up in his childhood. And all of these stories are met with nothing, but love and kindness and sometimes applause, and sometimes tears, and sometimes laughter. And it demonstrated so beautifully in this entire group of people that no matter how you show up every day, if you're showing up as authentic and real, you're welcome, we want you here. This is good, this is exactly what we want.
And I think that doing those stories intentionally every month and reserving the 15, 20 minutes of the staff meeting simply to share and get to know one another. And then also the vulnerability and the courage of our staff to share some of those really difficult things really helped set that precedent to create the psychological safety going forward, and allowed people to have more vulnerable one-on-one conversations with their managers and direct reports, where they were able to share things on a deeper level, to have broader conversations that just created this intention and this understanding of that psychological safety all across the board.
SKOT WALDRON:
Has your organization always had this, or who enabled you to come in and do this thing, right? You didn't just come in and say, "Hey LUNA, you need all this. I'm your person, and this is all what we're going to do," and everybody's like, "Oh, okay, sure Stevie, that's I guess what we're going to do." How did it happen?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah. LUNA was founded by Chris Waters, and we're actually celebrating our 21st year. So, he founded it in Indianapolis in 2001 and that was a time in Indianapolis where immigrant refugee communities were just starting to boom. The need for the services was naturally booming and expanding as well. And Chris, it's one of my favorite parts of his story is he never really sat down and wrote a business plan and said, "I'm going to create this business." He was a Spanish interpreter himself. He'd spent some time in the peace corps and when he came back to Indianapolis, spent some time interpreting in the hospitals downtown. And he's an incredibly charismatic, likable guy and got to know lots of people.
As they needed more languages, they would say, "Hey Chris, do you know anybody who speaks Burmese? Hey Chris do you know anybody who speaks Mandarin?" And then Chris when it took upon himself to go to ethnic grocery stores, to go to different churches and recruit people and say, "Hey, I need this. You can get paid for the service. How can we do this?" There are even stories of him early on Ubering driving people from place to place to get them to appointments, to provide this language access for people. So, that was what started at LUNA and as it continued to grow, he met and fell in love with Marina Hadjioannou, who they later got married and they now own the business together.
And Marina really brought this softer, more people-centered lens I think to the organization. She is really who I think laid that groundwork, that foundation for this culture of care. And I think I just was in the right place at the right time and developed a relationship with Marina that allowed her to trust me enough to take the reins of creating that culture and run with it. They are really who laid the groundwork. But as we continue to grow and I also add, we've always been really intentional about wanting our staff to represent the communities we serve. We're so closely tied to the immigrant and refugee and deaf and hard of hearing populations in Indianapolis.
And it's hard, you can't have a diverse staff and have it function well and efficiently, unless you're creating this culture. I really believe if you want diversity on your staff and you want it to be a positive outcome that you have to be intentional about the culture you're creating.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah, and DEI has to be a central component of your organization. I mean you're employed by probably one of the most diverse companies, right? Your type of company is probably one of the most diverse, right? Just by nature of what they do and so...
STEVIE CROMER:
As the services, yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah, so that's huge. Let's talk about navigating that DEI space as a cisgender white female. How do you navigate that space? First of all, can you define cisgender for those who may not be totally familiar with that term, and then understand how do you navigate that space being who you are, and who you identify with?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, absolutely. So, cisgender is you identify as the gender you were born with, right? I was born a female, I identify as female. That's a privilege, right? The same way being white is a privilege, the same way being Christian is a privilege, the same way as being able-bodied as a privilege. In the beginning of my personal DEI journey, I really struggled because I think naturally many of us look to people in marginalized communities and say, "How do I do this? Tell me about this, give me some background on this." And it's not their job. It's not their job to teach us to carry all this privilege and I'll speak for myself. I'll stop I guess, it's not anybody's job to teach me as a cisgender able-bodied white woman about the marginalized community.
It's my role and my responsibility to do the work and to put in the energy and the effort to try to find other perspectives, to try to find other voices to learn from and to amplify. It was definitely very challenging and still can be challenging at times, because I think especially in this day and age of Google, we all just want to go somewhere and be like, "Hey, tell me what I need to know." And it's an easy thing to do, but we're putting a really undue burden on marginalized communities when we do that. And they already carry such a larger burden that especially as a white woman, I can't understand and I'll never be able to fully understand.
I look at it as it's my responsibility as a white woman to further this cause by doing some of that research on my own, by having the conversations on my own, and really understanding what my role is. The other piece I'll add is it's also not my job to be a mouthpiece for those communities, right? Because I don't identify with those communities, I can't tell you what a black woman feels like. I can't tell you what a deaf individual feels like, but I can find voices in those communities and amplify them. As a white woman, I might have a following, or an area that they are not as privileged to that I can share their resources, I can share their stories.
I can share their social media platforms to help amplify those voices and get some of those voices that are part of that community more attention, so that they are the ones being heard and being listened to.
SKOT WALDRON:
That's powerful. I know when I started in my DEI journey and working with teams and cultures inside of companies, that I was very hesitant. I'm going to be totally vulnerable. I'm like I'm totally hesitant to come in and say, "Oh, by the way, yes, I'm a 44-year-old white male that grew up in the suburbs of Atlanta, went to a 95% white school and I was middle income. I didn't really have any problems. I got to do whatever I wanted to do, right? I was never denied access to something that I was really conscious of, right? That it's like if I wanted it, I just did it." And I went through life that way and even through my adulthood that way. Now, I ask myself this or... do I have any right to come in and teach DEI principles to in their organization, right?
Understand because I don't know. I haven't been there, right? So, what right do I have to teach anybody about that and structure my conversation around that. What would you say to somebody like me in that case?
STEVIE CROMER:
I don't think you do, I don't think I do. I think you're right on that. I think it is our role that we can teach about allyship, and we can teach about how to be an ally to these communities, but I think it is the greater justice to... if someone were to come and it's happened. People come to me to talk about DEI stuff, and I try to refer them to people that are members of those communities that can better speak to what they're wanting to learn from, and again amplify those voices in different ways. I also want to go back for a minute when you were candid enough to share that it's uncomfortable and scary for you, and I'm right there with you there.
I mean even this morning, I have very much an awareness of being really thoughtful about what I'm saying and what I'm sharing, whereas I might not feel that if I were talking about leadership, right? Because I have a little bit more ownership and how to train on those sorts of things, but what I've really learned is vulnerability and empathy goes so far and intentionally creating relationships go so far, and the ability to make mistakes and to own our mistakes and for people to trust that you're coming from a place of wanting to learn and grow.
So, a great example of this is we've been talking a lot in our office about names and the importance of our names, and our personal identities and our cultural identities, and just how we address people and obviously in a diverse staff and in a diverse environment. Sometimes, we have names here that are difficult to understand, or challenging to understand. Really being okay with saying to somebody, "Hey, can you pronounce your name for me? I want to make sure I say it right." Rather than just saying somebody's name and totally butchering it, and having that person feel disrespected or not cared for, or putting the responsibility on them to crest you, which is a really challenging thing too, right?
I think I guess I would encourage everyone myself included and I still do it all the time, just ask the questions and build the intentional relationship, so that people know your intention is coming from a place of growth and empathy and support and care. And I think that's a really important part of the process.
SKOT WALDRON:
What do you think is the most I guess foundational principle that enables cultures to thrive in that space, that DEI space and the culture of inclusion, right? What is the single most, is a big question, important concept do you think that companies need to embrace?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, I really do think it goes back to psychological safety. Amy Edmondson at Harvard coined this term several years ago, and it really just goes back to the idea that we're all on the same team, right? When we win, we all win. When we fail, we all fail. In a brainstorming situation, you can throw a million things on the wall, and nothing's going to be laughed at. No one's going to be told that was a silly idea. It's just the freedom to be vulnerable and to be candid and to be authentic. It takes putting your ego aside. It takes people really being vulnerable to invite those conversations, but I really do think it all boils down to that idea of psychological safety and creating that on your team.
SKOT WALDRON:
You also said something where I asked you the question earlier about what's the biggest mistake that companies are making when it comes to the culture that they're trying to create and you said... Well, there's two parts of this okay. Missing intentionality, so not being intentional about it, just accidental and then it falling on their laps. And then all of a sudden, you have an event like George Floyd and then all of a sudden, companies are reacting to something which is not being intentional. It's a reactionary state, and then they can be intentional about what they're going to do in response to that, but reaction isn't pro-action, right?
STEVIE CROMER:
Right.
SKOT WALDRON:
That was one thing you mentioned, but the other thing you mentioned is about specifically not being intentional about creating and building underlying relationships. When I frame packages up, it's like it starts with that psychological safety which is a foundation which is built on communication, effective communication. And then that builds the trust and the relationships. If we aren't first intentional about how we communicate and understanding our strengths, and who we are and what we bring to the table, then it's going to be harder to build that trust in a relationship part. So, start psychological safety, I'm right with you on that and then building in those relationships. So, talk about the intentionality piece for me.
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, yeah. I think especially with George Floyd, especially in the last few years, there are lots of organizations who are adding DEI positions or DEI programs, or maybe bringing in a speaker for black history month, right? And I think that there are good intentions in doing those things. But I think without that intentionality, it's just a façade. Really true DEI work needs to be permeating every part of the organization, so that's your hiring processes, that's your retention processes. If you're doing employee engagement stuff, are you accurately and appropriately communicating to people in every way that they need to be communicated to?
When we're looking at this hybrid or remote work workforce situation, if you have an expectation that someone is going to be working from home, but maybe you also need them to be in a really quiet background, but maybe they have a home that has five people in it, and it's not always capable for them to have a quiet, excuse me, workspace, right? Understanding that that's an equity issue. We all just don't have the same resources at our fingertips, and that's not always because someone isn't working hard enough or doing their part, right? There's a lot of underlying systemic things that are really dismantling, or really hurting marginalized communities that make some of these things really challenging.
As an organization, looking at all the different processes, philosophies, policies in your organization and taking that DEI lens to it, it will really start to permeate so many other things. Is it great to bring in a speaker? Is it great to do one program? Yes, I think the people who are ready to hear the message, or to absorb the message will. And I would never say don't do those things, but I think the intentionality behind it and really taking the broader lens with it is really what makes it so powerful and can really change an organization in a more positive way to really again permeate DEI into everything they do.
SKOT WALDRON:
And how do I do that then? So, say I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I've been meaning to do this. I see the value of it," or maybe I've all of a sudden, I've woken up, right? And I'm like, "Wow, this is an issue. This George Floyd thing really sparked something in me. There's an injustice in the world that I want to be a part of solving, but I've got this behemoth of an organization, or I've got this behemoth of resistance in my way. And I feel like I want to be part of this, and I want to start doing it, but I don't want to look like I'm I guess a poser DEI person, right? I want to do it for real," where do I start? How do I start?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah. So, I think two things come to mind first and foremost for me, empathy training for your entire organization, but especially your leadership fast, so that people know how to talk to people who will know how to have challenging conversations and supportive conversations. And using George Floyd again as an example, if an organization never addressed that in any way, shape, or form and just acted as though this was an any other normal day, how hurtful is that to people on your staff who are really closely impacted by it? How hurtful is that to members of your staff who are black and really identify with that community, right?
So, having that empathy training and really enforcing that core value of empathy, and making that an underlying core value of your organization I think can be a really important thing to do. The other thing that comes to mind especially in larger organizations is employee resource groups. They so often are done and led by staff members, and they aren't compensated for them. And they often aren't even done on company time. So, really being intentional about okay, we have two people who are going to lead an ERG. And you're going to be allowed to do it during company time and you're going to get compensated for it really sends a strong message of this is important to us, we want to make changes here, this is what we want to do.
I think those are two really simple things that right off the bat, that don't take a huge chunk of change, or a huge amount of time, right? It's in many organizations, that would be flipping a switch and saying, "Okay, here's what we're going to do and let's do it, and bringing it in." And it then can start to be a ripple effect in many other ways of what you do.
SKOT WALDRON:
Doo you know of any good resources that somebody could go to, to get any of that information?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, so there's a great empathy trainer consultant here in Indianapolis. Her name is Liesel Mertes. I don't know if you can send a link to anybody or whatnot, but I'm happy to connect you with her.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah, yeah, send me that information, I'll put it in there.
STEVIE CROMER:
Okay, and then also Brené Brown is another one that's very, very widely known. And she has tons of books and trainings and podcasts and even a Netflix special about courageous conversations that just... In fact, we watched Brené Brown's Netflix special here as a group, and then we talked about it. And it was a way for us to share this talk together, and it talks about leadership, it talks about empathy, it talks about vulnerability. It essentially talks about putting your neck out on the line and the risk and reward involved in that. I think those are two really simple places to go. I'm happy to pull some others for you and send them to you, so you can send a lot of people as well, Skot.
SKOT WALDRON:
That would be awesome, that would be really cool.
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, for sure.
SKOT WALDRON:
I would like to see those resources, that's really good.
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
You said that and I love this, I ask all my guests this question. Okay.
STEVIE CROMER:
Okay.
SKOT WALDRON:
About what is company culture, what do you think that is and I get so many different answers. And some of them, there's some overlap. I don't really get any that are really the same, but your answer is really unique in the sense that you said workplace culture is the scent and the taste of an office. Wow, I love that. As a brand guy, I sit there and go, "Branding is about engaging all the senses. Every single sense creates a brand experience." When you said scent and taste, I was like, "Hmm, that's cool. I've got to ask you about that." So, I'm asking you about it, hit me.
STEVIE CROMER:
All right, yeah. I think it's the unknown pieces, I think it's the aura, I think it's the energy. I think it's the things that you can't really always articulate, but that you're confident they're there. And a good example of this is in our space at LUNA, we were incredibly intentional about utilizing the walls and the physical space in our office to make them welcoming and warm and inclusive and caring of our employees. The walls are brightly colored. They have memorabilia from different ethnics and cultures around the world. We have the family wall that I mentioned earlier. We have an engagement and gratitude board in our office, where it's simply a place where every staff member has a little two by three headshot. Actually, you can see them back here. So, these are some examples of mine.
SKOT WALDRON:
Nice, yeah.
STEVIE CROMER:
And it's literally big butcher block rolls of paper that we hang from the ceiling, and then there's a little cart that has everybody's headshot. And people go and they put a headshot up there, and they're like, "Thanks so much for helping me talk through this the other day, or thanks so much for having lunch with me, or thanks so much for the hug," or whatever it might be, but it's a way to openly, publicly share gratitude with people for something big, something little, whatever it may be. The other part of it that I think is so important is that it's a way for our staff to physically leave a mark on our physical office. It's butcher block, so we cut it off and pull it down about once a month and it rotates, but again it's a way for them to physically make a mark in our office that I think is important.
I say all that to say when we have people come to our office and visit our office for the first time, without a doubt every time somebody walks in, they're like, "Oh my gosh, your office is so warm. Oh my gosh, everybody looks like they're happy to be here." We are not perfect, no one's perfect. I don't want to present this air that everybody here just loves their job and coming to work every day. I don't think that's a reality and that's not really what we're shooting for, but I do think there's an underlying love and care and support for one another here that people do genuinely feel when they come to our space, that our staff knows that when they come here, they're cared for.
They know that when they come here and come to work every day, do we have a purpose that we're trying to serve by providing language access? Absolutely. Do we also realize you're trying to provide for your family and sometimes, your family is literally thousands miles away from you. And I as someone who was born and raised in Indianapolis and all my immediate family is within five miles of me, I have no idea what that feels like, right? The scent and taste is are those intangibles. It's the things that people just know when they meet somebody from LUNA, and they talk about their job and they talk about their work. And I think it's just a feeling.
STEVIE CROMER:
And I know that sounds like so touchy-feely, but I really have found in my work those are the things that seem to be the most meaningful, because they go so far deeper than a philosophy, or they go so far deeper than a mission statement that might be on the wall. I think all those things are great. I'm not trying to discredit that, but I also think going a little bit deeper, so it is that sense and the taste has become a really important part of who we are.
SKOT WALDRON:
Powerful, those intangibles as you also say them. Those things that you can't really put a finger on, you just know that they exist and you can sense it in the office and you feel it when you walk in. And that's powerful, and I want to be able to feel the energy of that person when I'm talking to somebody that works there, right? Because I go back and say that brand is what people say when you're not around, say about you when you're not around. And what are LUNA employees saying about LUNA when they're not around, when they go to the barbecue this weekend or whatever? I mean are they saying, "You know what, I don't love my job every day, but I do feel valued hurt and understood. I feel somebody's making an effort into me as an individual.
SKOT WALDRON:
And while I may not love the dots and Is of my job every day and the technical stuff, maybe I do love some of that stuff too, but I'm not going to love it every day. There's going to be ups and downs, but ultimately that underlying culture is what's going to keep me going, and keep me up and keep me as an evangelist for LUNA and what I'm a part of."
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, absolutely. I think the two things that come to mind for me that our staff probably share with people is number one, they are connected to the mission of what we do. Every day, we get a phone call from an emergency room that might have a member of the Burmese community that can't communicate with the doctors, but was in a car accident and needs medical attention, and how fortunate we then feel to be able to come in and help the situation to allow this person to get the medical assistance they need, or maybe it's in a school system where a child rather than having to interpret for their parents during a parent-teacher conference, they have another trusted adult there who's taking on rather than doing that difficult thing.
Our services are in the legal sector, education, corporate, everything you can imagine. So often, they really are life-changing things for people that really open a new world in so many ways. And I think our staff does feel very much connected to that mission and very much connected to that why. The other piece of it that I think that they hear with people is like you said, they may not the ins and outs of what they're doing every day, but they like the people they work with because again, we're really intentional about creating relationships. Another part of my role is I have an enrichment program for our staff, where we do enrichment trainings once or twice a month based on either leadership or mental and physical wellness. DEI obviously is part of that and then just general professional development.
We gather on a monthly basis and talk about how do we improve, how do we grow, what are we looking to do. I myself am a huge mental health advocate, so that's another place where I put a lot of my energy. I write a blog about especially with COVID in the last couple years, just being really vulnerable with my own mental health struggle I think has really helped me create deeper relationships with people here who feel similarly, right? And they don't feel isolated, and they don't feel alone. And they've then been able to talk to other staff members about what they're struggling with, they're dealing with. And again, it goes back to the psychological safety of being able to share and come to work as your authentic self.
And I think those relationships are really what help people evangelize LUNA to other people when they're at the barbecue on Saturday.
SKOT WALDRON:
Beautiful.
STEVIE CROMER:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
SKOT WALDRON:
Let me ask you one last thing, and some people usually have to think about this for a half second, so that's totally cool if you do.
STEVIE CROMER:
Okay.
SKOT WALDRON:
But give me an impactful story, it could be a personal story, it'd be somebody that you experience, but just a story where this culture of inclusivity has really... you've seen the impact of it. It could be at LUNA, it could be somewhere else, but what's something that stands out in your mind that you can relate to us of why this is so important?
STEVIE CROMER:
I'll share a specific LUNA story. I mentioned earlier the LUNA stories that we shared our staff meetings, and one of the most pivotal ones for me personally was a gentleman on our staff who had recently been promoted to a manager position. And he was a member of the LGBTQ community, and he had shared that with some people on staff, but not a lot of people and still had not even shared it with a lot of his family members, so still very much on his own journey. And with his manager promotion, he'd recently been given an office. He ended his LUNA story by saying, "Even though I just got an office where I can close the door, I want to take this opportunity to open the door and come out of the closet to everyone."
And in this room full of people, everyone with tears in their eyes stood up and applauded him, right? And really gave him this response of love, and really gave him this response of honoring his bravery and honoring the courage he brought to the table. And I think it was such a pivotal, I don't want to speak for him, but I think it was a pivotal moment for him. And it was a moment where he really did feel like he could give more of himself to work. And even though there might have still been people who struggled with it or weren't sure, he was living his truth, right? He was living who he was and able to come to work every day as his authentic self. And I really think it was life-changing for him in many ways.
SKOT WALDRON:
And what do you think that's going to enable him to go on to do, or to be? You said one thing, it's going to allow him to give all of himself, right?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
But what else do you think that's going to enable him to do?
STEVIE CROMER:
I think it enriches every part of your life. I can say personally, so I'm divorced and the last couple years of my marriage were really a struggle in lots of ways. Just candidly, I felt like I was living behind a curtain for a couple years. Once I was able to pull back the curtain and be more authentic in who I was, it enriched every part of my life. And I know that sounds probably cliché and there are probably people that don't believe it, but I really think if you can harness that, it really does change everything. It changes your personal relationships, it changes your professional relationships, it changes your relationship with your family, with your parents, with your children.
And especially as a mother, there's nothing I want more than my children to feel authentic in who they are, and to be who they really are at their core. How grateful I am that I work an environment that creates that and welcomes that which then permeates the rest of my life, and it allows me... I don't have to code switch. I don't have to come to work every day and put on the face and be somebody who I'm not. I can go much more seamlessly and much more effortlessly between work and home, because I'm not putting on a mask every day about who I am. I think that that type of psychological safety and that type of inclusion really does if you allow it, if you harness it, if you welcome it, if you work towards it, really does impact every other part of your life.
SKOT WALDRON:
I hear the care in your voice, right? I hear the genuine care for others and that desire to want to be an advocate for this, and to want to be a voice for that, right? You understand your position and the power that you do have and embracing that and using that as a way to serve the that community and create a culture of inclusity is powerful. So, I commend you for that.
STEVIE CROMER:
Thank you.
SKOT WALDRON:
Very cool having you here. Where can people get in touch with you if they want to talk more about this and keep the conversation going?
STEVIE CROMER:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm Stevie Cromer on LinkedIn or my email is stevie@luna360.com. Thanks so much for having me today Skot, it's been wonderful.
SKOT WALDRON:
So, what action are you going to take? You just heard this conversation and now you have to do something with it. I'm going to ask you, what is the action you're going to take, the small action that you can take today to start to move in the direction of more diversity, equity, and inclusion and creating that culture of psychological safety. There's a few things she mapped out for us. They have this family wall where it's a simple concept, right? A family wall where we're all learning about what does family mean for different people, the onboarding curriculum that she talked about, having 21 days where there have a specific and intentional structure to that training, empathy training, and employee resource groups, and just doing something she did with the Brené Brown thing.
Say you're not an expert in DEI, well you know what, there's some out there Brené Brown is an expert in that having difficult conversations space and watching that Netflix series, having a discussion about it. And just trying to make an effort and to start to understand each other. That is what it's all about. Just start to make the effort, start to be intentional not reactive, but proactive in this space and it will go a long way, not only for you individually, but for the entire organization and the entire culture you're trying to create. Thank you so much Stevie, and thank you all for being here on another episode of Unlocked. If you want to find out more about me go to skotwaldron.com.
You can also find me on LinkedIn, connect with me there. I share a lot of good resources there and my YouTube channel, like, subscribe, comment. I would love it because this is all for you, and I want to know if it's helping you or not. So, thank you again for being here. I'll see you next time on another episode of Unlocked.
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