Unlocking Important Things With Charlie Watkins

Skot Waldron (00:00.386)
Yeah, I think that, so basically, Riverside is buffering on my side and on your side, it's recording high res on your side and on my side. So if it gets pixelated or it gets all goopy or something like that, it's still doing high res on your side of my side. So just ignore that. If it glitches and you have no idea what I said or whatever, then either fake it. If you kind of know what I said, but if you have no idea what I said, then make sure you tell me like.

Skot, I have no idea what you said. So I can edit that out later. But I just, I just go ahead and start recording so it catches up and doesn't lag too much. But yeah, I just wanted to kind of go into, so your CEO business, what is that?

Charlie Watkins (00:39.918)
Super.

That's a technology conglomerate, data businesses, about 10 companies privately held. It's the remnants, nice remnant, but it's the remnant of an old media company. We owned the Weather Channel, started that and sold it to NBC, which then sold to IBM. That was headquartered in Atlanta. And we had newspapers and TV stations, a hundred year old company, private family, the Batten family. And I'm the CEO of the remaining assets, none of which are media. So we have...

We're going to get a dollar from advertising anymore. So we are in data businesses. We're in the automotive space. We're in hospitality, franchise, ad tech, a number of things we do with data and software services and both selling the products of data. If you know what data is, it's kind of like we package things up and then people use them for other reasons. So.

Skot Waldron (01:20.941)
Yeah. Sure. Okay. Wow. That's cool. yeah. You see, got to, got some roots here and the weather channel bus going on and some other things. So that's cool. Good for you. How else can I serve you on the show today? What, what, can I make this beneficial for you?

Charlie Watkins (01:51.726)
Yeah. Well, thanks for that's great question. I think the way you could make it beneficial for me is just help me get to the meat of it. You know, I lead men's groups and I always make one promise to them, which is I promise to only talk about important things. Not that we take ourselves too seriously, we can laugh, but let's talk about the most important things because life is challenging and people are sitting there with questions that need answers and we ought to talk about important things because men are called to important things, not to trivial things. And so that's really wherever we're going, we just keep going for the meat. And that's really what I want.

Skot Waldron (02:48.9)
Okay. that's cool. I love it. All right. Well, let's do that then. I would love to talk about important things. So, let's do it. cool. Well, we go about 30 ish minutes or so, give or take the flow of what's going on. I've got some questions here based on what you've sent me, but then we're just kind of, kind of riff off of how to just have a good discussion about all it,

Charlie Watkins (02:57.998)
All right. Super.

Skot Waldron (03:17.316)
It's about unlocking the potential of people, making sure that we are getting the best out of our people, in work and in life and the best out of ourselves. So it's, really about that. So, super cool. All right. anything else I can think of? I don't think so. Any questions for me?

Charlie Watkins (03:26.008)
Yeah, it is.

No. Do you have a family?

Skot Waldron (03:40.932)
I do have a family. Yeah. My wife and two kids 14, she'll be 15 next week. And then my son's 13.

Charlie Watkins (03:45.901)
You're too good.

Okay, great. Well, we're a little ahead of you. We have five grandsons, ages 16 to 12. And our children are, we have a son in Charlotte who's married with two boys and he's, is 45. And our daughter Katie, who we live on the same property with her here in Charlottesville, it's about a 70-acre farm and their house is about 600 feet from ours.

Skot Waldron (03:52.984)
Yeah. My gosh.

Charlie Watkins (04:16.174)
And she's got a husband and three boys and Katie's 42. So we're a little ahead of you.

Skot Waldron (04:16.504)
Cool. Nice. You are a little ahead of us. Yes, you are. Goodness, man. That's awesome. That's, that's impact though. You know, when you, when you, when you see the prosperity like going and then you see like the things they do and that's cool. You know, you did that, man. You did that.

Charlie Watkins (04:27.394)
You were married young.

Well, that's very kind. We should go from glory to glory. The next generation should be more in tune with God, more in touch with his miracles, more favor, more blessing. It shouldn't be worse. It should be better. You know, so I tell my daughter sometimes I really could have been something if I'd had you as a mom, but not as a dist to my own mother. But anyway, we have a good time.

Skot Waldron (04:54.338)
It should be, yeah. Yeah, that's cool.

That's sweet, man. That's really cool. I love it. I love it. Well, hopefully let's let's make them proud with the show. All right, so you can share with everybody and say, wow, I just did this. Check this out. And they go, wow, dad, grandpa, whatever. You're amazing. You know, so it's all that. So. Okay. Yeah, I'll bet. I'll bet. Okay, here we go, Charlie.

Charlie Watkins (05:12.704)
Okay good, very good, in Jesus name.

They do. It's more than I deserve for sure.

Skot Waldron (05:33.048)
Charlie Watkins, it's good to have you on the show, man.

Charlie Watkins (05:36.248)
Fabulous to be here. Thank you, Skot.

Skot Waldron (05:38.084)
Um, you, uh, I don't know. I've just been chatting with you a little bit here and you have, you know, some things under your belt and life and in personal things and in business things that, uh, you can put a little feather in your cap for, um, things to be proud of, uh, the things you've built both personally and professionally. Um, but we're here to talk a little bit about your book, but, um, give us a little background. First of all, on you, why we should even listen to you setting this whole thing up. Think it's important for us to understand and establish. You know, I read your bio, right? And the intro, but I really want to hear like from you, the essence of why we should listen.

Charlie Watkins (06:21.688)
Well, the reason people should listen to me and the reason people do listen to me as a leader in business and in ministry is I have experience. And my experience isn't just the experience of things happening to me. I have lots of those. But I've lived through things and done things with God through those things. And those have been instructive.

And those have been universal in their application to men's lives, actually leaders lives. And so I have a lot of experience in leadership, was thrust into leadership as a young Naval officer when I was 22 years old after graduating from the Naval Academy. I don't think I've ever not been in leadership. I've been a CEO or in the C-suite for more than the last 25 years. And I don't see that as any piece of bragging. It's just what where God put me and how he wired me and people asking me to take these jobs and these positions and these roles. So why do they do that? Well, I guess they feel safe with me. I guess they think I'm reasonably competent. I guess they think I'm a listener. But I think mostly I'm a leader and I include people in decision-making and thoughtfulness through problem solving. And I think that's why people listen to me. And I think that's why people should listen to me. These lessons, these experiences that I wrote down a portion of my life in the book are things that I have found with men, leading men and women for 40 years. They're the big stuff. They're the important things. They're the things they care about. They're the things they have questions about. People want to make their lives work.

They want their lives to work. They want their lives to matter. They want purpose. They want meaning. want dignity, of course. But they want their lives to work. They want relationships to work. They want their kids to respect them. want to do... They don't want to mess this up. And yet they're busy and they're stressed. And it doesn't always feel like it's working in the middle part. And is this going to come out okay?

And what can I hang on to while this is going on so it will go okay? Will it go okay, Charlie? And is this gonna really work? You know, I'm doing these things, is this right? And so trying to get back to the practical, spiritual, personal ways that God has for us are just so essential. They're so fundamental. They're so non-Siri internet. They just work. And that's why I hope people will listen and people will read the book. And it's why I people have listened to me for many, many years. People tell me they like working for me. And...

When I do my 360s and my surveys, people like working for me. But people don't always say it's easy to work with me because I'm also, I don't wanna use the word tough, because I don't think I'm tough. But I call people to accountability and excellence because I think that's what Jesus does to us as men. He says, no, you come on up here. I want you to see the view from my perspective. It's okay down there.

But come on up here, look at this. This is, yeah, you could do this. You can do this. You actually are, it's in there. You may not see it yet, but I wired you for this. And when men start to get a little sense of that hope, men and women, leaders, I think there's a spark that comes alive and says, okay, I want a little bit more of this. How can I press into this? I have goals, I have dreams, I have ambitions, how can I achieve them? And I think this in the book, so is these are the questions that I'm trying to address in the book. So I have the assumption of someone attempting to do life. Well but they want to know is there a playbook. So, are there guardrails is there are the things that really really matter? Or that in the things that don't matter so much. So I try to help them with that just because I've lived through a lot of that.

Skot Waldron (11:05.86)
So here you talk in, and this is lingo I use quite a bit with, with individuals, with leaders and teams and this, this difference between calling people out versus calling them up. And it's, you know, the first calling them out can lead to disempowerment, stifled growth, frustration, being talked down to, you know, just ordered, you know, kind of pointing the finger, pointing the finger and just feeling that way.

Calling up is kind of, hey, you may not necessarily feel comfortable in this conversation because it's a reality and it's hard to have this conversation, but I'm calling you up to where I think you can be, where you think you can be. And now we're going to collaborate on how to get you to this place. And that difference is monumental with leadership because we have this language. I mean, I'm sure you've heard it. Maybe you've said it. I think we all have.

You know, I'm going to call that person out. I got to call that person out. Cause that, that, you know, and I, I just, you know, I wish we called up more inside of our cultures, inside of our teams, inside of our lives. Even our kids, I think we tend to call out our kids, a little bit in life of like, Hey, I know, just do it. Cause I said so, you know? And I think if we called our kids up a little bit more.

They would feel a little bit more empowered.

Charlie Watkins (12:35.65)
Yeah, well, know what the difference between the two in my experience is the spirit of criticism. So are you trying to rehabilitate and grow or are you mad because they messed up? And you can have a little bit of being mad at them because they're not bringing their best self to the game and that's okay. But the spirit of criticism is the thing that I tell leaders, you've got to get that out of your, you've got to stop criticizing. Criticism is that calling out piece.

The calling up piece says, hey, I'm really upset with you right now because this is not your best game and I see you living in this kind of realm. Now, am I wrong? Because we thought we had an agreement. This is where you want to go. And you really have to call them up to it, back up to it and say, no, come on up here and look at this. This is what this is going to be like once you get here and you live here.

And I think men, leaders, women, marriages, they love that because it says, there's hope. It's not about you screwed up and therefore you are a screw up. And the voices from the past come back and a critical father or a critical boss or a difficult relationship or a failure, just get the tape starts replaying and then they kind of go down and you know you don't get that person back for a while you don't really get

Skot Waldron (14:08.452)
it out and it takes some time to build that trust back.  Then let's go on that, go back to that, the spirit of criticism. Like this is, this is interesting because I was just talking, I was doing a training with the team in Phoenix yesterday and we were talking about this word critique. and how I've trained leaders in the past who never wanted to critique their team. never, cause critique to them was negative.

I don't want to be a negative person. I don't want to give them negative news. I don't want them to feel bad about the thing of, of critique. And, and for my side, you know, I've, I've been in the art world. I've been in the design world for a long time prior to what I'm doing now. And, and it was like, critique was something that we use to shape our designs, to shape our ideas, to make sure that we were going in a good direction and getting feedback and going back and forth. So, you know, it's the feedback versus critique terminology.

What do you think about that? Where do you go when you're offering critique? Do you believe in the word critique or do you take the approach of no, this is feedback or how do you go about offering that in a way that's calling up versus calling out?

Charlie Watkins (15:25.198)
Think you, first of all, you prepare for the meeting. You don't respond in the moment if you can avoid it. If you can, and you get a benefit maybe with a video call or a video chat opportunity, and you say, I want to talk to you, but I can't talk to you right now. I need to talk to you this afternoon. You got a little bit of time. Let's set this up for one o'clock. And you get yourself ready as the leader and you decide some things. You decide that you want to point some things out. You want to display so there's some ownership. But I think the biggest element of it as you're preparing is you put yourself into on their side of the table. You say we. You use inclusive words. You say, we agreed. We talked about this.

Um, have I failed you in helping you do this? Let's get to the bottom of why we can't seem to get to this level or thing. And you go with them and you're over there with them. And as soon as you're on the same side of the table with them, you're, you're there next to you. And the enemy is the thing we are not doing or the thing that we're, we're performing poorly on.

And so the whole thing is a positive. The whole thing is a, it's not warm and fuzzy. And I think that's where leaders get goofed up. Say, well, I want to be nice. No, you don't need to be nice. You need to be loving, but you need to be firm. So I always say, be firm, but be kind. Be firm, but be kind. And the way you do that is you come on their side of the table and you say, I'm going to look at this from your perspective.

Because if you sense any defensiveness, any pushback, it doesn't mean that you might not get some of that. And you can do a little tough love, but you don't use that authority bullet. You keep it in your pocket. You want to stay with influence. You stay with influence. don't stay with, don't go to authority. And I listen, I went to Naval Academy. I understand orders.

Skot Waldron (17:52.568)
Yeah.

Charlie Watkins (17:53.346)
Yeah. So, but orders work if, okay, shoot the gun there. That's an order I get, but you can't just look at a man and say, you're broken and we need to fix you. That's not helpful. So I think the issue is coming on their side of the table is preparing ahead of time. So you don't respond in emotion and in the moment, and you just make sure you're being redemptive. You're trying to get them to a better version of themselves that they actually want and are struggling to believe they can probably achieve.

Skot Waldron (18:33.124)
Yeah, I had this visual when you're saying, mean, and I don't know if you're figuratively saying go to their side of the table or physically saying go to their side of the table, but I would almost argue like when you can physically be on their side of the table, like, Hey, is it okay if I join you over there instead of having the, the authoritative desk blocking you from, from that, you know, um, but

I think there's some value there that I've never really thought about and talked about. that's pretty cool.

Charlie Watkins (19:02.435)
Go. Pick your setting, pick your settings. And there is, if I'm on this side of a big mahogany desk and there's one chair right there, that says, I'm talking, you're listening, be quiet and take notes. If I come around the other side and there's two chairs there and we can look at each other or it's a round table or there's a sofa and a chair adjacent, it's very different.

And so pick your venue is that you make a great point, but I've actually physically done that where I as I know how what's the best way for me to get to the right answer and the answer is it what how can I create inclusiveness here? Especially if you have a person that's more sensitive. I have some I have about a dozen direct reports in my company and I Have a couple of them that are more sensitive. I terrific leaders. I mean, they're very very capable but they care a great deal about what I think about them. Maybe too much sometimes. And they want to please me. And they know I care about them. They know I love them. Individually, I don't speak to them in groups at personal level. I speak to them individually. And they want to do well.

But I have some of them that really it's about a 80 % encouragement, 20 % instruction model. And for some of them, it's about an 80 % instruction model and they're just fine with that. They're thick skinned. Hey, Charlie, don't sugar coat this, just tell me, okay, where do we goop this up? Look, I just want to own it. I'm busy, they're task oriented, they're emotionally tougher people, they had good fathers. You know, they just want to get it. Just, you know, give me the short version.

You know, I screwed this up, let's go. And the other people say, you know, I tried to do this and it was really, and you just meet them where they are. And you just kind of come along. That meeting might take an hour. The previous one might take seven minutes. Okay. But guess what? You've returned that person to their position of leadership, empowered and armed and you know, knowing that the boss has got my back. So important.

In fact, it's critical. It's critical. Otherwise, I'm just guessing.

Skot Waldron (21:25.708)
It is. Yeah, it is. mean, and, and, going back to that's influence, right? That is influence is when people are choosing to follow me and not that they have to follow me. And, also the idea of like, when you're saying, taking orders of, Hey, you know, shoot that gun in that direction, you're getting short-term results. You're getting the short-term thing that you need. And when we use authoritative power, that's what we're getting. When we build through influence, we're getting that long-term culture engagement, growth and influence that I think builds, cultures and builds teams and builds healthiness and builds longevity and builds loyalty. and such a, in a world where everybody just complains about the disloyalty of, of whoever now, what, what more could you use as your, you know, your weapon of choice, I guess, to say is like that influences is to really build the loyalty within teams.

Charlie Watkins (22:22.722)
You know, Skot, maybe you're saying something I think really important that maybe I would say a little with different words and that is, and I got this actually from my pastor and I came to, I was in the middle of conversation with him once and I came to this like, aha moment where I said, his name's Gabe. said, I just got it. He said, what'd you get? I said, you want me to win?

He said, yeah, I want you to win. I said, yeah, but I just got that. I didn't get a lot of that in my life. And so he really wants me to win. Like he doesn't have another motive except me winning. And so when I can get come up, can get my direct reports of my business or in my men's group or in any sphere of leadership or influence to believe that I want them to win. I want them to win on

God's terms for the best, for the long term, that kind of, I want them to be rich like Proverbs 10 22, the kind that has no sorrow associated with it. I don't want them to be rich with regrets in their relationships. I want them to be rich by God's standards. I want them to win. When they believe that, man, they will run through a wall. They will do whatever you need, whatever's hard. They'll make themselves into better people for their own teams. But I think that I think this idea of wanting someone to win and them knowing it, you don't have to say it very often, but they need to know that you're really actually on their side and we're on the same side. It's powerful.

Skot Waldron (24:13.578)
It is, it is. we pivot to your book a little bit? Cause I think a lot of this ties into your book. Tell me about the title first, why you picked that title and then why you went into writing the book itself.

Charlie Watkins (24:29.294)
Well, the title is from the experience that is described in the introduction of the book, where I went to my father, who was a Navy four-star Admiral and the top officer in the United States Navy from 1982 to 1986. And I was a young Christian, and I had a lousy attitude towards my dad growing up. We moved all the time, and I was kind of mad at him for not being there for me. And...

I had become a Christian, I led to the Lord by the ship's doctor I was on after I graduated from the Naval Academy. I was on a nuclear powered cruiser named Virginia. It's currently now a submarine, but then it was a cruiser. And I came back from this deployment where I had received Jesus Christ and Blythe and I, my wife's name is Blythe, we joined a church different from the denominations in which we grew up. And we fell into a beautiful, wonderful church.

And there was a Sunday night service and I was there and I was looking for more of God and there were these guest pastors, husband, wife, and they said, anybody wants to come up afterwards after the message that we'll be praying for people? I didn't know you didn't do that. I just got in line and they got up to me and the man began speaking in the language I've never heard.

I didn't understand what he was saying, but I was comfortable. It wasn't weird or anything. The woman had her hand on my shoulder, the wife. Then he stopped talking and she looked at me and she said, you need to go to your father. You need to ask him to forgive you for the bad attitude you've held towards him all these years. I've never seen these people before, never seen them since. She, somebody revealed to her the inside story.

And so it kind of, you get your attention, right? And so she had this very encouraging word from Joel too, I'll restore to you the years the locusts have eaten. When you do this, and she asked me my name, I told her my name was Charlie. And she said, Charlie, when you go, her last instruction was, she said, throw no rocks.

I knew exactly what she meant. That was a common phrase back then, would basically mean, this is not about you getting anything from him. This is about you asking him to forgive you. So first of all, you had to forgive him. And we had done that. But then I went to him and I threw no rocks and my life changed. And there was a breakthrough. So the "Throw No Rocks" is a call to men, leaders, to deal with the things in your heart that are blocking you, that you know aren't right, that they're sitting there and they're the elephant in the room, if you will, in your heart. And that changed my life. It changed my marriage. I was able to sort of leave and cleave. I left my parents emotionally with that in a good way. My relationship with my father became very civil. It never went negative again for the rest of his life. I was 25 at the time.

And I had that experience. that's the name, that's the title of the book. And I wrote the book. It's a crazy story. How do you write a book when you're the CEO of a technology conglomerate? Well, I got sick in the second half of 2023 and they put me on steroids. And when I'm on steroids, have four cups of coffee awake, which I actually never had four cups of coffee, but it's a wired kind of alertness. And I'm a high energy person normally anyway. And I had this midnight to 4 a.m. window that just opened up for me for six months. And I went to the Lord and said, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna go crazy. Because this is not like sit quietly by the fire and read a book. This is like, I got a lot of energy. And I was still doing all my stuff all day long. And the Lord said, finish the book. Which of course had been in piles of teachings and leading men in business for 25 years. If I showed you on my shelf, you'd see lots of three-ring notebooks and all the things you have. More 1.0 world than 2.0 world. And he said, finish the book. And so I literally finished the book after six months of more intense time, the last day of the steroids.

Book was finished in January of 24 and we finished the editing and it was published in September of 24. So that's the story of where it came from. And it's an attempt to sift down years and years of leadership and working with men. Not so much just leadership for leadership sake, but at the personal level for men and leaders to get some things straight with God and your life and so much of life will just work. So much of life will just work better. And you'll get to the next plateau where you can now see the battlefield. You'll get to the next mountain top where you'll be able to see down to the valley and you'll be able to begin to anticipate and you'll react well to life's pressures and problems. So the book is not a fairy tale. It's filled with a tremendous difficulty. I've been through business failures. I've been through cancer. I've been through open heart surgery. I've been through long periods of waiting where God came through and showed me things. But these are the things men care about. They wanna know that it's gonna be okay, not just like a holding your hand, it's gonna be okay, but like, no, no, no, it's gonna work. And so the book is, in a nutshell, is an attempt to give men who are bent on success, who know they want to do things, they don't wanna live a subsistence life, to give them a pathway, a platform, a model that will help them do that in partnership with God and not on their own, which is a sure way to have regret.

Skot Waldron (31:03.854)
Can you give me an example of something in there? me, give me some meat. Like what's a typical or a very, I mean, one of the more impactful stories, tools, I don't know, advice principles that you give in the book to help help leaders and men do this.

Charlie Watkins (31:24.546)
Well, the book is divided into basically three main sections. So we established this platform of assets. So it's written like a businessman's thinks, like these are assets that you have to, they are capabilities that you have to begin to start and then master over a lifetime. And they're very specific. There are seven of them. And then you get to, you build them and I just develop all the rationale for building them. And that can be done quickly or can be done slowly, but it's wise to do them as quickly as possible and then begin to master them over a lifetime. But then you get to leverage them. And the leveraging comes in the application of them in with difficulties and pressures in life. So for example, I had an 11 year period where I was waiting to sell a business I was leading. And it was, we had sold the Weather Channel, the credit markets collapsed and on September 15th of 2008. And the business I was running at that time within this company that I'm now the CEO of was one of many businesses, and I was the CEO of that business. And we were, we had to pull it off the market because there were going to be no deals done on that Monday morning. We got the Weather Channel sold on Friday night the 12th, but on Monday morning, my business and all these other businesses had to pull back off the market because there was no debt facilities anymore. We thought it would be shut down for a year maybe, maybe two. It began a process that ended up being 11 years until we sold that business very, very successfully 11 years later. But what happened in my heart in those 11 years was the learning of how to wait on the Lord and how to change your frantic focus on the thing you want over onto what he's giving during this season and to do that with vigor and to do that with increasing faith and then to see him come through when you didn't know the timing of the outcome. So that story, for example, is told in more detail in the book.

And it gives men the weapons, the encouragement that are needed for what I call the currency of the kingdom, and that's faith. Faith doesn't see it yet, but faith believes it because something's been deposited in their heart. You have a dream, you have a hope, you have a word.

You have not just a, as we call it, wishful thinking, or an idea, or a simple, that'd be nice, but something that drives you that says, I was made for this, Lord, this is me, this is who you made me to be, and I'm not getting it done, I'm not there yet. Help me wait well.

So waiting well is one of the real skills that you get to leverage when you got this platform of assets in place because it deploys faith. And there are others, times of diversity, of adversity, times of suffering. I went through a lot physically.

I was on the top, I was in great shape, I was a triathlete, I was racing triathlons and I had a tummy ache and I had lymphoma in my stomach. And I had to go through heavy chemotherapy, kind of went back to the bottom, had emergency surgery in my stomach and the stomach blockage was lymphoma. wasn't even a, the stomach was closed up because of this disease.

And I had been on a podium three weeks before that in a triathlon in my fastest time I'd ever raced. And I went from almost figuratively from being on a podium to being at the lowest point I think I've ever been in my life. We're at wires and tubes and the place was nuts in the middle of full hospital in the middle of the night. Blythe was gone because it was after hours. I was tempted to feel sorry for myself and asking the Lord, what is this about? And having him speak to me and show up and people bringing me words and encouragement and building it back up. So capturing all that is, for example, that's a chapter in the book that tells that story. So those are two meaty things. How do you love your wife? How do you love your wife if you're a married man?

I love your wife so that your relationship with her will dictate favor for all your relationships at work. People don't make those linkages, but the Bible does. So I tell men, you need to get serious about hearing the voice of God through your wife. need to not wear your muddy boots home every night and bake her in all your problems at work. If in fact, that's your model for employment.

But here are some guidelines. This is the way I've learned to love my wife. And these are very important principles because that is the most important relationship in a man's life who's a married man. And most of them that I deal with are married. There are a few single men, but not very many. And so I encouraged them to love their wives. And this is how Christ loved the church because this is a sacrificial kind of love.

And you get all these benefits from that and you get to leverage them. I mean, Skot, that's the smiling thing about the book. It's kind of like, you know, we don't like the word entitlement as a Christian. We don't like the word that we, you know, we have a right to anything. And I get that language. But you know what we get? We get confidence. We get faith because God honors His word. He honors the things we do in obedience to Him.

And that somehow buoys us up. And we say, no, I think I can do that. And you realize the Lord's leading you. He leads you through faith. He leads you because you're, and we like to call it confidence in business. It's, know, it certainly doesn't need to be arrogance, but you know, as a Christian, you don't really want self-confidence. What you want is you want confidence in your partner and you want to know he's in with you and you're in with him. And when you know that, you get real confident. And I waited 11 years for that business to sell. And it sold for $791 million. And its value 11 years earlier was 70 million.

Now you can do the math on that and it's just a little over 11 times more And that's a true story And that was after probably four business failures So I've been see all I see I've seen all that and I just Went through it in partnership with Jesus and so I want to show men and leaders that they can do that too.

Skot Waldron (38:40.612)
That's awesome. You know, we all experience our downs, right? And it's easy to focus on those. And how do we shape ourselves as a result of that is the story. And we don't always know the ending. I love the idea of waiting well. That whole principle is so strong because it deploys faith. I mean, that whole idea is so good. Because it does at the end of the day, at times that's all we have. I, often tell leaders and, you know, hope and faith and how they're intertwined, but I often tell them that like, hope is not a strategy, but it always has to be part of it. And if it, you don't have that glimmer of hope, that idea of faith, that idea of vision, that idea of this could be, then you're stuck. Yeah, you're stuck. And so, I love that. love that you're instilling this in the book and the thoughts and ideas of what you're doing here. So I appreciate that. Thank you. And if people want to talk more with you about all this, they want to get ahold of the book. want to, you know, just understand you a little bit more. Charlie, what, what do they do?

Charlie Watkins (39:59.502)
Well, the book's on Amazon. It looks like this. It's sort of a blue youthful guy chucking a rock, throwing a rocks. It's on Amazon. It's on thrownoreocks.com. You can get it there and you can communicate with me. There's a landing page there and a place to order it. If you want to go to thrownoreocks.com or just go to Amazon, but there's a lot about the book on Amazon. And then there's always a way to contact me through the various mechanisms I mentioned that you can find me there. It's cool stuff and it's really great to communicate with men about things that matter. I love the fact that God didn't leave us to our own devices and he's got so much to share with us, so much to tell us.

He's got so many things that he puts in us that we get to deploy if we have that confidence that says this is of God. And that confidence is really that currency we're looking for, which is that faith that says, is what I should be doing. This is good. This is gonna work.

I'm gonna do it. And that is beautiful. So, yeah, find me on Amazon, find me on TrillRox.com and I'd be privileged to have you look at the books. Also on audio, I recorded it myself, it's my voice. And you can get it through that, in that media as well.

Skot Waldron (41:33.38)
Well said, well done. Thank you, Charlie for sharing your spirit. Thanks for sharing your words. Thanks for sharing your ideas. I appreciate it. Take care.

Charlie Watkins (41:42.126)
Thrilled to be here. Thank you.