Unlocking Loyalty, Pixie Dust & the Gen Z Advantage with Tim Elmore

* Website
* LinkedIn
* Facebook
* Instagram
* X (formerly Twitter)

Timestamps
00:00 Intro
05:06 Déjà Vu: Didn’t We Just Complain About Millennials?
08:23 The Peter Pan Paradox: Pixie Dust Meets Adulting
11:08 Coaching vs Command: Building Bridges, Not Flashing Badges
16:52 The Corporate Lily Pad: Why Gen Z Hops (and Doesn’t Climb)
18:46 Give Them a Voice (Even If They Don’t Get a Vote)
20:35 Tug-of-War: “Be Me” vs. “Belong Here”
23:56 Nose Rings & Social Contracts: Pick Better Hills to Die On
27:07 Millennials vs. Gen Z: Team Players vs. Solo Flyers
32:47 Feedback Without Fragility: The A.L.E.G. Playbook
35:15 Sandpaper Leadership: How Gen Z Smooths Us Out

Tim Elmore (00:02.594)
They said the corporate ladder has become the corporate lily pad. So, they’re hopping around like frogs from job to job. They don’t want to be a commodity or a number, you know, where they feel like they’re spent and thrown away. So, if supervisors can actually build a relationship, we need to first and foremost say, I understand you’re anxious. We’re all a little anxious. It’s kind of normal part of the human condition. There’s, you know, we’re all a little anxious.

I think we need to stop making it some sort of traumatic if it’s not a trauma or not a disorder. This is something that all the world is a little stressful and we just need to get with it.

Skot Waldron (00:43.00)
When I’m not hosting Unlocked, I’m speaking at events all over the world. I’m helping leaders and I’m helping teams communicate better. I’m helping them build trust faster and actually enjoy working together. I’ve spoken for companies like The Home Depot. I’ve spoken at national architectural firms. I’ve spoken for pharmaceutical company offsites. I’ve spoken at associations, you name it.

With 99% of attendees of all those events, over 1800 people have reviewed me at this point. 99% of them saying they got some value. That’s pretty awesome. Even the caterers have thanked me. And if they are thanking me and they’ve heard a lot of talks and they’re busy doing their jobs, that’s saying something. If you’re an event planner looking for a speaker who’s really easy to work with, trust me, I want to be the last thing you’re worried about on event day. I’m going to take care of you. And who actually delivers value for your audience that they are going to use on Monday morning when they return to the office, then let’s talk.

The Gen Z wave is coming and we can see it. It’s like right there, y’all. And some of you are even like in it. And that is so cool. And it’s some of it’s frustrating. Let’s just be real. Yes, it’s true. And it’s okay to be frustrated because you know what? We are having to learn to adapt. We’re having to learn to change in the workforce dynamics of everything that’s here.

And today, Tim Elmore is going to introduce us to the thoughts about Gen Z. I know we’re all talking about it, multiple generations. I’m out there giving talks on generational workforce dynamics. I don’t specify like how much, know, I don’t specifically work on Gen Z. But this book that Tim just wrote, The Future Begins with Z, it’s nine strategies to lead Generation Z as they disrupt the workplace. That book, we’re gonna talk about some aspects of it, but really we’re gonna get into Tim’s brain because he has explored and worked with and interviewed and done so much work in this space that it’s amazing to really understand how much heart he has for this generation. And you will hear that Tim himself is a recovered Gen Z skeptic. I’m just going to call it skeptic, right? Because he was frustrated too. And he’s worked through it. He’s learned to empathize. He’s learned to listen, to understand where they come from. And that has made all the difference. And that’s what I’m going to challenge all of you to do.

Tim is the founder of Growing Leaders, an Atlanta‐based non‐profit organization created to develop emerging leaders. His work has grown out of 20 years of serving alongside Dr. John C. Maxwell. Elmore has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, USA Today, Psychology Today. I’m not done yet, y’all. Here it comes and been featured on CNN’s Headline News, Fox Business, Newsmax TV and Fox & Friends to talk about leading multiple generations in the marketplace. He has written 40 books, 40 y’all 40, including Habitudes: Images That Form Leadership Habits and Attitudes, and Eight Paradoxes of Great Leadership. His latest book, the one we’re going to talk about, is going to be available really soon in November 2025. If you’re listening to this after that, then it’s already out y’all. Go ahead and go get it. But you can find his work at timelmore.com and you can find out so much more about him and what he thinks all over the place. So, I challenge you after this episode, go dig in. Here we come, Tim.

Skot Waldron (04:31.502)
Tim Elmore, I can’t believe it. I have the Tim Elmore on my show today. So great, man, so great.

Tim Elmore (04:39.00)
It’s great to be with you, Skot.

Skot Waldron (04:41.00)
Man, we’re going to, we’re going to talk all things Gen Z today. Because you know what? Everybody’s talking about it as they should. Some of us are talking about it in favorable ways. And some of us are talking about like, no. But I feel like, man, I feel like we just had this conversation about the millennials. Didn’t we just have this conversation?

Tim Elmore (05:04.15)
Yeah, it wasn’t just a minute ago, though. About 15 years ago, I think we all started throwing millennials under the bus. You know, kids today, they’re entitled and they’re, you know, they’re, you know, trophy for every child who shows up at the soccer team. And that was happening. But Skot, we need to remember, we gave them the trophies. were only did. That’s exactly right.

Skot Waldron (05:24.00)
We don’t want them to feel left out.

Tim Elmore (05:27.00)
That’s exactly right. So, if they weren’t led well, we need to look in the mirror and say, what did we not do as parents or coaches or teachers or bosses? But yeah, Gen Z is now the new kids on the block, and we have got to figure them out because they are the future.

Skot Waldron (05:43.00)
That they are and they are coming, and I often say it’s a wave and you can either get smacked by the wave really hard in the face or you can go with the wave in that sense and ride it, ride it out, ride the wave out or get smacked in the face by it. I say either one, you have a choice.

Tim Elmore (06:05.00)
That’s right. That’s exactly right. Yep. And some people are getting smacked in the face. We’re seeing a wave of Gen Zers come in. It’s a little awkward cause they’re different and either they quit or get fired sometimes within a few months. And we don’t really get to benefit from each other. And I want to see that stop.

Skot Waldron (06:27.00)
And we wonder where the loyalty is, right? Isn’t that the question? Kids today just aren’t loyal. And then we’re like, hold on a second. How fast did you just fire that person?

Tim Elmore (06:38.00)
Yeah, right. Well, and here, let me remind you of one other thing. Gen Z started entering the workplace some years ago, not a lot, but maybe five years ago. So, 2020, if you remember, was a very difficult year for everyone, almost everyone. And the first wave of employees that got laid off were these Gen Zers, because they were the new kids. So, they’re going, you want me to be loyal? You weren’t loyal to me, Bob, you know, so why do you expect me to be just stick around for low pay or, or, you know, I’m a number here. So, I really, I do believe we need to help them grow into their jobs. There’s no doubt about it, but I also think we need to begin with belief. Meaning I’m believing the best about them. They bring a pixie dust, which I’ll talk about later in this conversation with them that we don’t have and we need them, and we will need them.

We don’t know what the future holds, Skot. But we do know one thing, Gen Z is going to be there.

Skot Waldron (07:37.00)
I bet they are.

So let me talk about it. So, I don’t want to just have another like, these are your top 10 tips to work with Gen Z because I can get that off Pinterest if I want to. Like, I don’t want to like, we don’t need to categorize them necessarily or throw this thing in here, but I really want to get to the Why. Like I want to get to why we, why we behave the way we do. Why do Gen Zers, why do they operate in the way that they do with that function? I want to strip away a lot of that stuff and think about like, what, if I could ask you, right? What’s the first truth you want people to understand about Gen Z?

Tim Elmore (08:23.00)
Okay, wow. I think it would be this. If I had to narrow it down to one, it would be this. There is a Peter Pan paradox going on that has confounded employers, supervisors, managers, bosses, employers. And let me give you the paradox. So, I wrote the book called Generation iY back in 2010, 15 years ago, and I talked about the Peter Pan syndrome.

And that was, you remember the character Peter Pan, right? Walt Disney had a movie about it. It was a play. It was a movie. But Peter Pan was a very interesting character because of two things. One, he was able to do magical things. He flew into the house, and he had pixie dust sprinkling everywhere. He had abilities that no one else had. On the other hand, if you remember, he lived in Neverland and he didn’t want to grow up.

In fact, there was a whole song about that in the Disney movie. So, the Peter Pan paradox is the age of authority is going down, meaning kids are coming in at 22 and they know stuff we don’t know. They’ve been exposed to smart technology and AI and other pieces where they have become experts in some ways. Did you know one out of eight Gen Zers has monetized social media? One out of five of those? It’s a full-time job on their phone. So, on the one hand, they bring this pixie dust, the age of authority is going down. They come up without a badge, but with lots of smarts.

But the other side of the same coin is the age of maturity seems to be going up. So, there have been employers that have said this. It sounds derogatory, but they’ll say 26 is the new 18, meaning what we once expected at 18 years old, the social and emotional maturation of the generation. Now there’s individuals that are exceptions, but Skot, you can imagine how this would be frustrating to a boss to go, come on, buddy, let’s go. So, we need to make sure that we can turn our frustration into fascination with them, stay with them long enough. And I think the Peter Pan paradox simply tells me I need to listen more than I used to listen. And I need to coach more than I used to coach. I’ll stop there.

Skot Waldron (10:49.952)
Though I’ve heard that though, I’ve heard that about some of the younger generations is that they want the coaching. They want the mentorship. They want the thing. And, and I heard that a lot with the millennials. Is it different with the Zers or is it the, is it the same idea? And what would be the reason behind that?

Tim Elmore (11:08.00)
Okay, I do think they want coaching, at least all of my research, all the countless focus groups I’ve had with these young professionals tells me they want it, but they want it relational. And I think we would go, well, I’m not your buddy, I’m your mentor here, but they want a bridge, not a badge to be the authority that you bring if you follow what I’m saying. And I think oftentimes they would expect, now get ready, reverse mentoring to happen. So, you’re pouring into me, they might say, because you know how to succeed on the job, Mr. Boss. But I have something to say as well. And we’re going, you’re 22 years old. What are you talking about? You know, but I think reverse mentoring has saved me in my career. I’m in my sixties now and I’m telling you, I’ll sit down with Andrew or Cam, who are 30 and 40 years younger than me. And I’m learning as much as they are. So, we both wear the mentor hat in the meeting.

We swallow our pride. We check our ego and logo at the door and we’re willing to all learn from each other. This is what’s new about Gen Z that I think we’ve not seen yet before.

Skot Waldron (12:21.00)
I think that if we can learn to give and take, if we can learn to share ideas instead of squash ideas, that if I understand that when I’m bringing, you know, the younger generations bring in adaptability or future thinking or technology knowledge, or how do we push limits? The older generations are bringing that wisdom, that relationship building, the innovative, I mean, the process-oriented thinking. I mean, we can learn to do that. I think there’s a lot of gold here for all of that.

Tim Elmore (12:49.646)
No doubt. In fact, I can illustrate what you just said. In the beginning of my new book, The Future Begins with Z, I tell the story of Colin Webb. I’ve known Colin since he was in high school here in Atlanta. He got an invitation to go up to MIT to do a college degree, and he was just brilliant. In fact, when he graduated, he had a number of job offers. One of them was General Motors, one of the big three in Detroit.

And so, he said yes. and they put him in the smart car division. So, he’s this intelligent smart boy, man now working on smart cars. Well, within the first few months, Skot of his time at GM, he saw that they were very traditional company, kind of old school in some ways. I think that’s fair to say. And so, he had some ideas that he thought would really make it better. Professional development. We could do that better. And this we could do better and that we could do better.

So he goes to a supervisor, he does the chain of command thing, and he basically hears, hey, just keep your nose to the grindstone. You don’t need to say anything. You need a suggesting thing. Just do your job. Well, he was respectful in his response, but he didn’t stop there. He ends up sending an email to Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors, and she shares his ideas with her. She gets back to him.

And she says, these are very good ideas. Let me take it to my executive team. They agreed. These are really good ideas. But by the time it went down from the executives to the middle managers, to his supervisor, you can imagine they reached an impasse again. And he was told you need to just do your job. You don’t get to lead anything for nine years, nine years. And so, Colin, I know him. He’s very respectful, but he had some good ideas that they didn’t want.

He quit before the end of the year, Skot, and he went off and he has started two companies, brilliant companies. He sold one. He’s doing quite well in his twenties, but I’m thinking GM, you just missed out on an opportunity. and I know GM’s a marvelous company, Fortune 500, but I’m thinking too many times, that’s our story. We’ve got our traditional way that worked in the past, but he’s got visibility on the future, not the past. In fact, I’ll give you one more quick anecdote.

I just was on the phone yesterday with a law firm that I’m going to go speak to. And they said, oh my gosh, Tim, we’ve decided we want to start working with AI on it to a greater degree. Our most helpful team members were our interns who had just come in. They’re still taking college classes. They were downloading what they were learning about AI. They said, we’re all past 45 years old. They had all the, but see, they were humble enough and hungry enough to say, you share. And so, I don’t know, I’ll stop there, but we just got to relearn what we have learned in the past and be open to change.

Skot Waldron (15:54.00)
And that, and that opportunity is we’re going to suffer if we don’t start to understand how to bridge this gap. And again, we can go through all the tips and tricks of how to work with Gen Z with this and blah, blah, blah. I really want to understand how, I mean, I hear that, now coming out of school, that the expectation is for somebody to stay at a job for three years and then transition.

I mean, there’s all kinds of stats out there, right? But I mean, three years. So, you’re telling me that if I work in 30 years, I’m going have 10 different jobs. I mean, what? The older generations never would, never would think of such a thing, right? How do we keep, how do we keep them longer? Like how do we, because that’s the goal. I don’t want to keep retraining people. That’s a lot of money.

Tim Elmore (16:52.598)
Yeah, and time and effort. You’re absolutely right. Yeah, what someone said, what you just said, but in a very fun way, they said the corporate ladder has become the corporate lily pad. So, they’re hopping around like frogs from job to job. Now, not everybody, but there are enough that we need to pay attention to this. So, I have a whole chapter on boarding and retention. I think the key as cheesy and predictable as this sounds is relationship.

They don’t want to be a commodity or a number, you know, where they feel like they’re spent and thrown away. So, if supervisors can actually build a relationship and earn trust, not just expect trust right away, that’s what’s needed. Gen Z looks a little bit like Gen X 30 years ago when there was some distrust in the air. Corporate America had failed us a bit. Politicians had failed us a bit. The OPEC gas crisis 40 years ago was going on.

So, there’s a, there’s a cynicism, a little bit in the air, a skepticism about authority. So, we would say authority comes from a badge. They would say it comes from a bridge. Build a bridge with me. So, I don’t know how that sounds to your listeners, Skot, but if we can begin to learn something about them beyond the job, maybe what their hobbies are or whatever, get to know them.

There feels like there’s a relationship there. And then I would say we need to give them a voice. I know that must drive some listeners bonkers, but they want to have a voice from day one. They do bring something, the pixie dust again. They do bring some pixie dust, and they don’t think we think they do. So, here’s what we do in our office. We say to our team from interns all the way up to the senior executive.

Everybody has a voice, not everybody has a vote. So, everybody gets to weigh in because we want them to buy in, but ultimately the leaders need to run point. You follow what I’m saying? You know, we’re not going to do a democracy and put our heads, you know, our heads down on the table and vote with their eyes closed. but I feel like that’s what they want. At least give me a voice at 22 or 23, and I don’t think we’ll regret it. It will be messy because they’re young and they haven’t learned some job skills yet. So that’s why I always say we need to listen more than we used to listen and coach more than we used to coach.

Skot Waldron (19:26.00)
And when we’re thinking about integrating them into the workforce, it’s a process. And like you said, they’re young and they are still learning different skill sets and how to navigate social environments and how to do all kinds of things. Rightly so. We all did it. It was a little bit different based on how we were doing things. I want to know.

When we’re talking about this stuff, can be frustrating. And I will say, even at the beginning of your book, you talk about, you were frustrated with Z. You are a recovered Gen Z skeptic, right? And so, where are we? Let’s first of all empathize with those that are hiring Gen Z and also understanding what are some things that Gen Z needs to watch out for themselves that is like, hey, let’s, let’s be aware of this though. Like we know you’ve got some pixie dust, man, but like,

Tim Elmore (20:35.00)
Yeah, so got some dust. Yeah, that’s right. Well, I’m so glad you asked that, Skot. You’re such a good interviewer Here’s what I have noticed about Gen Z and I’m probably gonna geek out now because I spend all my time on this and this is what I think about. Every young person enters their career with a tug at their heart in two different directions. I want to be me and I want to be long. See the difference. I want to be me says, hey, I got an earring and a nose ring and purple hair or whatever it is. I want to be me, right? Have we not seen thousands if not millions express, I want to be me? We did back in the day as I remember.

But there’s also a second tug, the other direction. I want to belong to something bigger than me, to a community that’s doing something amazing, selling goods and services that’s making our community better. Well, in order to balance on this teeter totter, you give a little bit on both sides. So, I think the best workplaces, now this is deep here, so stay with me listeners, is they want to belong, but they don’t want to fit in. Here’s the difference. If you’re asking me just to fit in, that means well here’s the look and here’s what you got to do and you got to look corporate and you got to do this and they’re going, oh my gosh, that feels like you’re trying to push a round peg in a square hole, and you’re making me not me.

I think belonging is quite different. I think Brené Brown said this at University of Houston. She said, belonging is I get to bring who I truly am, but to something much bigger than me. I am myself, but I’m myself on something larger. And that’s the team and the corporation. But you see the difference? I’m not pushing you to be someone you’re not. I’m saying be yourself, but don’t be yourself and saying, I’m demanding my own way. I’m making sacrifices on behalf of the mission and with my purple hair or whatever it is I’m bringing. Comment, I’d like to hear your thoughts. What do you think about that?

Skot (22:38.00)
I think there’s a, I think there’s a balance, right? I’ve got, you know, a 15-year-old daughter who is, you know, kind of in there, right. And, and I see her wanting to not adhere to certain, you know, codes at school, right? She’s a great kid. Every people love her. She gets all kinds of accolades, and she does great in school.

But she wants to keep this like a little bit of a, I’m gonna ride the line and even step over it a little bit to see if anybody says anything. I’m gonna test the limits. And this might just be a kid thing. I mean, I did a little bit of the same thing, but where does that fit into all of this? Like in your eyes, because I sit there and look at it, I’m like, you know what? I want you to be you. I want you to have your own identity. I don’t want you to like try to conform to all this other stuff that’s out there. Like, I want you to understand who you are. I want you to love who you are. But I also understand, I mean, this where my Gen X comes in, where I’m trying to bridge these two worlds of like, yeah, there’s a certain standard. If you want to belong to the club, there’s also some rules of the club that you have to follow.

Tim Elmore (23:56.00)
That’s right. You said it very well. Can I volley back? So, your daughter’s a great example. She’s a young lady. She’s a budding young woman now. And you see, wow, she’s got a little rebel in her, but boy, she’s got some value to add. Philosophers thousands of years ago talked about humanity’s social contract. It’s an unwritten social contract that we all, when we age like you and I have realized, there’s a bit of a code to getting along in the world today. We drive on the right-hand side of the road. You drive on the left, then we trouble. You pay your taxes. You don’t pay your taxes, then we trouble.

So, let’s take your daughter, for example, okay? She’s not a young professional yet, but she will be soon. She’ll learn, I want certain things and actually need other people in my life. So, for my own good, I need to make a few sacrifices without giving up who I am. That’s what I’m striving for.

We bosses need to say, hey, stop dying on the right here. We need to stop dying on the wrong heels. If purple hair is okay to have in the cubicle, then let them have purple hair, you know, or let them have a nose ring. If that’s now if they’re customer facing and you say that’s not our code, that’s another conversation. I think we die on too many hills demanding tradition when we need to let them come in, be themselves. But what they need to learn and what your daughter needs to learn is I want to be fully who I am. I’m fully myself, but on behalf of something larger. I’m not the middle of the solar system. And I do need my dad or my boss. I think I don’t need him. I really need him.

I remember, I’m going to tell you a story. My young, my daughter was a young professional and she wanted to do something. I’m not going to say what it was because my daughter may hear this. She wanted to do something that was way off the charts in terms of humanity’s social contract, okay? So, she asked me what I thought. If I said what I wanted to say, I would have said, thought, what the heck are you doing? But instead, I said, well, you’re gonna wanna think twice about that because you know there’s some people that are gonna be put off by that. Now you can say, I don’t care but just know you’ll give up what they might offer to you in the future.

You don’t want to burn any bridges, you know, et cetera. You get this. So, what I think has to be learned by Gen Zers is I need to think long-term, not short-term. Maybe my nose ring isn’t the most important part of my identity. Or maybe it is, but I’m going to make sure I get a job that it’s okay with that because it’s important to me. But all of life is this balancing act of the social contract. I want to be me. I want to be long.

And what I’ve learned and what you’ve learned is the belonging is kind of important. So, you and I have made little sacrifices along the way, you know, and we decided maybe what’s inside is more important that the nose ring on the outside. I don’t need, I don’t think I need to go on anymore. I really think we need to talk that over with our kids and with our Gen Z ears. In fact, yeah.

Skot (27:07.00)
What is, um, and, and, and your research and all the stuff that you’ve done as we’re getting into the Zers, what is the main difference you think between the millennials and the Gen Z? Cause I mean to some of us, they’re just all young people. So, um, the millennials are, you know, the majority of workforce right now. Right. And so, when we talk about that, I mean, we treat millennials like they’re still 23, you know, but they’re not. And what kind of trends did you see in that difference between the Millennials and the Gen Z when that came?

Tim Elmore (27:43.00)
That’s first of all, that’s very, it’s a great question. Let me help listeners that might not know Gen Z, Millennials. So, millennials would be in their thirties, even up to into their forties now. And they are the largest part of the workforce. As you just said, Skot.

Gen Zers will be the new kids on the block. They are middle school, high school, young professionals. Alpha Gen are the younger children where they’re just now starting to get measured. But here’s one of the there’s a couple of big differences that I would say right away. Remember Millennials grew up with a cell phone. Gen Zers grew up with a smartphone, which was a computer in their hands. They’ve never known a day really without social media. As Millennials grew up, the computer grew up, right? So, they grew up. Gen Z, whole another level of smart technology and even AI. So, Gen Zers are now in high school or college and using AI to write a paper on Macbeth and hoping to God their prof or their teacher doesn’t figure it out.

One of the big differences is millennials seem to be in community as they learned growing up. They played soccer in teams; they did school projects in teams. It was always in a community. We just thought as educators, let’s put them in teams. Gen Z, not as much. In fact, if you remember 2020, everybody was sent home, including students, and they had to learn alone. And they got used to doing things independently. They are far more independent than millennials were and maybe are. So, I have to get used to that. It doesn’t mean they’re wicked or evil, but I need to make sure that I condition them to work as a team because that’s what they’re going to need to learn. But oftentimes I would say this, if I could speak for 59 million Gen Zers, they want community. They just want, may not know how to form community.

They really want to belong. They’re the loneliest generation in the world. By the way, every generation has gone up a bit in loneliness the last 5 to 10 years, even the Boomers, even the Xers. I just think we’re dining alone, living alone more often, even vacationing alone. Gen Zers would express very lonely. Well, work could be a place where they find community. In fact, they want friends at work. They really do.

You may give them a huge gift listener. If you could say, we’re going to form a community here where we really care. Now we need to generate revenue. We need to sell products and services, but in the midst of it, we’re building a community, and they don’t want to leave. There it is. Because they love their comrades there. So that would be one big one that I would say we ought to know.

Skot (30:30.00)
That’s really good. That’s really good. Can we listen? I want to talk about the mental health side of things for a second, because it is a real concern and it is something that we all need to be aware of as we’re going into this. And as we joked around about the every kid gets a trophy kind of thing. Gen Z isn’t that much different in, like you said, the relational side of things, in the, you know, softness of some of the relationship that we need to have or that we are wanting in that relationship.

So, when we think about providing feedback to a generation and then you’ve got older generations that are going to say the same thing they said when they’re trying to work with millennials too. It’s like, got to be soft and how I bring my critique, and I got to pay attention to their feelings and I have to do all the things, right? I mean, when we were talking about this, how an anxiety and all the things that are going on with mental health right now, how can we still as leaders bring the critique and the challenge that needs to be brought while still being sympathetic to the idea that mental health is on the rise, the mental health crisis is here?

Tim Elmore (31:53.00)
Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s a question that deserves an hour answer. I’m going to try to do it in a few minutes here. First and foremost, I love what Arthur Brooks says about anxiety in younger generations. By the way, he is a Harvard professor who has the largest class and a waiting line to get into his class. Arthur Brooks says, we need to first and foremost say, I understand you’re anxious.

We’re all a little anxious. It’s kind of normal part of the human condition. There’s, we’re all a little anxious. I think we need to stop making it some sort of traumatic. If it’s not a trauma or not a disorder, this is something that all the world is a little stressful and we just need to get with it. He would say that. And I think, and you’re spot on, but mental health is an issue. And I think we don’t need to go on and say, well, when I was growing up, back in the day, I walked uphill in the snow, both ways. You know, those are, those are just stupid speeches.

So, here’s what I say in that chapter. I have a whole chapter on this. I give an acronym that has saved me so many times when I have to offer firm feedback to what might be a fragile team member. And the acronym is ALEG. A-L-E-G. You know how for years, Skot, we said this is the leg you got to stand on and it meant, okay, you can go to the bank on this one.

So, A is Ask. I need to start my correction not with telling but with asking. So, I might say, let’s say you’re a Gen Z, Skot. I might say, Skot, wow, what made you make that decision on how to approach that project? I would have never thought of that. And, you know, inside you’re thinking, what were you thinking? But you’re saying, what were you thinking? You know, that in a way that’s totally curious. When we ask them a question like that or two, they feel valued. Someone always feels valued when you’re asking them questions about what they did and who they are.

The letter L is Listen. It does little good to ask a question if I’m not willing to do the work of listening actively to what they say. When they listen, they feel heard. And that’s the number one item that Gen Z asks for. I want to have a voice. I want to be heard from day one. We talked about that.

The letter E reminds me to empathize. And that’s a skill I’m only now learning six decades into my life.

So, ask, they feel valued. Listen, they feel heard. When I empathize, they feel understood. Now they may be a person of color and female and I’m older white male. But if I’m saying things like, my gosh, I had no idea. Or wow, that must’ve made you feel awful when that happened. They’re getting, okay, he gets it. He’s starting to get me. And Skot, when I’ve asked, listened and empathized, now I’ve earned the right to do what I wanted to do from the very beginning, which was to guide them and correct them. You know what? But I’ve earned it through a bridge, not a badge. I didn’t use my position to get the job done. I used, man, I just built a relationship with you, at least for 15 minutes. Now, does it take longer? Oh yeah, it does. Is it a little messier? Sometimes. But I have found it keeps them around and they feel like somebody understands them and gets them and believes in them. And I feel like that’s worth it.

Skot Waldron (35:15.00)
You have a quote right at the beginning of your book. And it says, by Renee Walter, says, Generation Z is the “sandpaper” on my leadership I didn’t know I needed. Right. So, you read that first line, you’re like the sandpaper on my leadership. Yeah, I feel you. And then it’s like that. I didn’t know I needed. And you’re like the sandpaper, it’s rough, but it makes everything so smooth afterwards.

Tim Elmore (35:42.926)
They’re building me into a better leader, I think. And I think they would say that the Gen Z team members, but I have to admit, I do need to be polished a bit. I do need a little sandpaper. And that’s hard for a Baby Boomer to admit sometimes.

Skot Waldron (35:58.00)
Leave us with a little bit of hope, man. Leave us with like your vision of what could be.

Tim Elmore (36:05.00)
I’m glad you asked that. I want to go back to where today’s older generation was just a young professional and see how things cycle through much the same way. like what Mark Twain said. History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme. So, way back in the 1960s, you’ve heard the story, Skot. So have I. President John F. Kennedy predicted twice that we were going to put a man on the moon before the end of the decade. And we did.

In July of 1969, Neil Armstrong stepped out on the moon. The story behind the story is even cooler than that. When JFK made that speech that we’re going to put a man on the moon, NASA did not even have the technology to do such a thing. I mean, they had whale. In fact, computers were people. People were computers. Didn’t have a computer. So, get this. All those young grads coming in as interns into NASA. From Purdue and MIT and Georgia Tech, they had the latest knowledge on computer technology. So, they were leaning in at NASA to the 20-somethings on what they knew to be able to pull off this huge feat, which they did not even have the technology to do. So, I love the fact that the older generations, let’s say 45 and older, became SimSoups, simulator supervisors. They were getting all these 20-somethings ready to do the job of putting Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon.

But Skot, listen to me. This is powerful. It was 20 somethings that actually sat at the operator station. The average age of the operators that put the astronauts on the moon, 27 years old. And the guy that actually said go, not know that they gave that authority to, Jack Garman, 23 years old, one year out of college.

Now, that tells me two things. Number one, I’m getting a little emotional here.

The older generation took their spot as mentors, not the doers. They welcomed a new generation in that understood the new technology. Does this sound familiar? That understood the technology and they gave them a place of authority early on. And the kids that came in then, I just heard an interview, they’re now 80 years old. They go, we didn’t even know what we didn’t know. We just had the audacity to think, let’s do this, buddy, let’s do it. And they did it. So, all I’m saying is let’s do it again. Let’s be NASA this year and let’s welcome them in. They’re going to have to learn some things.

The SimSoups would have said the same thing back in the 60s, but they gave them some power and some influence and some high stakes. That’s the high stakes I can imagine. That’s my challenge for listeners right now. Let’s be NASA again and let’s get this next generation ready and let them apply the sandpaper to our leadership.

Skot Waldron (39:03.00)
That’s fantastic, man. Thank you for that. And I think that we all need to hear it. And you know what? You know what’s interesting? This isn’t the last time we’re going to have this conversation. It’ll just be when Gen Alpha comes. That’s true. You’re going have a whole new book. You’ve got a thing going here, Tim.

Tim Elmore (39:24.622)
You take it from me. I’m gonna pass it on to you.

Skot Waldron (39:27.00)
Oh man, I don’t know. Walking in your footsteps. I don’t know if that’s doable. But no, I really, really, really appreciate it. I mean, the book now is going to be available. Tell us a little bit about that, where you can find it.

Tim Elmore (39:46.00)
Yeah, the official launch date is November 4, but you can get it now. There’s a pre-sale. So, if you happen to go to thefuturebeginswithz.com. You’ll go to the site that has the books and there’s even some extras and bonus there, but you can get the book and I’m very, very excited. It’s supposed to be, I just want it to be a guidebook for anybody that might be a little frustrated rather than fascinated at this new generation.

And I hope Skot, it makes you an even better dad to your daughter, who’s just a little bit on the line sometimes with her.

Skot Waldron (40:23.00)
I was very much on the line, and it was it all came to a crossroads when I we were going to Chicago. So, I live in Atlanta as well. Right. So, we’re going to Chicago for a family reunion. And the day before I come home, we’re about to get on the plane. I come home. We’re flying out the next morning and my hair is like bright, burnt orange. Like my mom. She freaked out a little bit, man. I’m just going to tell you. So, you know, I pushed it too. We found a salon when we got out there and then we got recalled. You know, my mom was like, we were going to a salon. But, you know, I pushed you on below so my daughter can give it to me a little bit.

Tim Elmore (41:09.00)
Right, absolutely. And that social contract is our balancing act, right? Yeah.

Skot Waldron (41:13.00)
Yeah. It’s so good, man. Hey, thank you so much, Tim. Keep doing the work you’re doing. You have been a mentor in the background for me. You’ve been so gracious to me and giving me your time and some of your intellectual capital. It has been so valuable to me, and I appreciate you.

Tim Elmore (41:31.00)
Good. You too, Skot. Thanks for having me on the show.

Skot Waldron (41:38.594)
Relationships make all the difference. Relationships are important. Relationships, they make the world go round. And if we can learn to value the relationship aspect at work the way that Gen Z kinda does, then I think that we’ll learn that it’s not that hard. If we can learn to listen, empathize, be curious, bring them into the conversation.

I love Tim’s thing here. You can have a voice. We want you to have a voice, but you don’t necessarily always get a vote. Okay? I think that there’s always some give and take. There’s these rules of engagement. I like to call them rules of engagement. I’m going to tell you what I need, and I’m going to appreciate and give you permission to be you, but I need permission to be me. I’m going to give you permission to bring what you have to this workplace, but I also need you to give us permission to run it in a certain way. And that doesn’t mean that we devalue each other and that we’re jerks to each other and that, not that kind of permission. I’m talking the healthy kind of permission, but also the understanding of where we are in life and what do we do and what do we have to offer and bring to the table. Let’s grab hold of that really tight. Let’s hold onto it because that is what’s gonna make the difference between those Gen Z employees that use your workplace as another lily pad, as Tim calls it, or as they use it as a ladder to grow and to get stronger in the organization, to get more perspective and to climb in to stick around. That’s what we want, loyalty. We all want it. The younger generations want it. The older generations want it. We all just want a little bit of loyalty. And that is gonna make a huge difference if we learn to understand what each other needs in this workplace.

So, get out there, y’all. Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X, Boomers, silent generation, if you’re still holding on, we love it. We welcome you to the table as well. All right, y’all, till next time.

If you want to find out more information about me or check out the show notes where there’s going to be more information and links to the things referenced in this episode, visit skotwaldron.com. And lastly, I’m asking for a little bit of love, just a little bit. So please take a moment, follow, rate the show. The algorithm is like that; it helps me get the word out. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. And until next time, stay Unlocked.