Hi, welcome to another episode of Unlocked, where we talk about unlocking the potential of people. Today we're going to do that through talking about purpose and not only unlocking ourselves through purpose, but unlocking the people around us through purpose and ultimately our organizations and the global community through purpose. It's so, so, so important. Nell Derick Debevoise from Inspiring Capital is on the show today. She has a new book coming out in early 2022 and I'm going to read a little bit of her bio here because she's got some creds.
All right, she's lived and worked in four different continents, including Japan, she's worked in the Palestinian area, France and Mozambique, and she's done a lot of work in that area. She studied leadership, innovation and intercultural dialogue at Harvard Cambridge University, de Roma, and Columbia and London business schools. She is also a senior contributor on Forbes and she writes, she said, four to five articles a week on purpose. That is a lot of purpose content. So you can find her there as well. So, her new book, Going First, is all about that. It's all about that purpose driven leadership and how we can use that to drive what we're doing as leaders, and to also drive what we're doing as teams and organizations, to make sure that what we're doing is having that impact.
She says that... And the sub-line of her book is find the courage to lead purposefully and inspire action and she uses this as an invitation. She talks about that at the beginning of the interview. So, let's get on with it. Nell is super fun. I was super excited to talk to her. So, get on with the interview. Here we go.
Nell, welcome to the show. I'm super excited to interview you, not only because your first name is the name of one of my favorite aunts, but because you have a new book coming out that I truly believe in, this idea of purpose and it's called Going First. Now, talk to us a little bit about how that even came into existence in your mind.
Nell Derick Debevoise:
Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you, Skot. Really happy to be here and know that we share so much about this. Such a timely topic. So, the book is called Going First; An Invitation to Find the Courage to Lead Purposefully and Inspire Action. Little bit of a mouthful, and I emphasize an invitation because that's come out of these last six months of the final phase of writing the book, which has been interviewing 118 purpose-driven CEOs and chief people officers. Just this unbelievable wealth of knowledge and gifts of these brilliant leaders from everything from Accenture to a nonprofit helping formerly incarcerated people become entrepreneurs to foundations, just the whole range of our economy.
And the longer story of the book is the last 20 years that I've spent studying and practicing leadership and helping people be the leaders that they really want to be, in a lot of cases, despite our work culture and the norms that we've evolved in the workplace. I have, I think, by nature, have seen for these 20 years a really positive view of human nature. No one wakes up in the morning wanting their employees to hate them or wanting to burn more carbon than they have to burn. Right? That's just not our nature. But the world and the incentives and the structures and the systems we have created sometimes lead to that. And so, the book is all about getting back to our true nature and the purpose that we're really here to serve.
Skot Waldron:
Okay, well, I'm going to come right out of the gate here and I'm going to say purpose is great and all, but it's fluffy. And it doesn't really apply to me right now to meet my goals this week. Does it?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
It does. I'm so glad you came out of the gate with that, Skot. You're in good company, right? Whoa, the last two years? We've always been busy, right? As Americans, we're busy, we have a lot to do, we're busy, but the last two years are like, staying alive during a global pandemic, staying employed, staying sane with kids at home or spouses or no one, or whatever your unique situation is. Purpose, the way we use purpose, we tie it to impact, right? So, the very concrete, tangible things that you make happen on an hourly basis, right? What are you choosing to eat this hour to nourish your body? How are you choosing to interact with a colleague or a customer in this meeting, right? Are you hard and, "You missed this deadline and we need to fix that," or are you like, "Hey, so what's going on? Because you're not typically a deadline misser and you've missed these few deadlines." Those are super different ways to show up.
And so, for me, for us, the way that we think about purpose for leaders is connecting to the impact of your behavior, of your choices, in three dimensions. The me, so I'm me, myself. But also the other me's around me, right? That colleague, that customer, that family member. Second dimension, the we. How is this affecting our team, our company, our community, our family, right? Whatever that we unit is and how that unit is performing financially, emotionally, all of the things. And then finally the world, right? That kind of vaguer people in the planet out there that, again, we all want, but sometimes get busy or wrapped up in thinking we can't fix everything out there, which we can't. But we can in some small way have some impact on a fairer, healthier world, which is what we're really working towards. So, I'm happy to share more examples, but the short answer is yes, purpose absolutely affects what you're doing today and will motivate you to get through today and get through this week better.
SKOT WALDRON:
I think that's super important, especially because you brought up the pandemic and this was this amazing, unfortunate social experiment, right? And a lot of different things. And this was one of them. And the aspect of survival, right? I am just trying to survive. I don't need all this other fluffy stuff. I don't need all this other things you're talking about. I need to keep my job. I need to keep my house. I need to keep my doors open to my business, possibly, if I'm a business owner, and I'm freaking out, and I don't know when this is going to be over, I need to not die or get really, really sick. I need my parents to be okay.
All this stress and all these things of the unknown came out. And all of a sudden we're in survival mode. So many of us were in survival mode, which means, "I'm not going to think about next month. I have to think about right now." And when you try to talk about purpose with people, they start to think that thing I asked you at the beginning, like, "Okay, that's great, but I need to survive right now. How's that purpose thing supposed to help me get through this next month, this next quarter, whatever it does?" So you talked about it inspires us to want to keep moving. How have you seen that happen? How do you instruct people and your clients on that idea of purpose?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Yeah. So, we'll start at the individual level and then can certainly speak to the organizations we work with as well. But on the individual level, it really is about that grounding sanity of perspective giving and focus of, because I know my purpose is to lovingly wrangle ideas and people to make work fairer and healthier, that is the purpose statement by which I live right now, it evolves over time, but that's my North Star. And so, amidst total chaos, amidst total uncertainty.,I know that that's what I'm working toward, right? And I know that there's, in the situation of a global pandemic, there's a bunch of things I need to do, to do that. One of which is to keep exercising four or five times a week, right? Because if I'm not doing that, there's no way that I'm being loving in anything that I do because I'm a nutcase, right?
And so, whereas it would be easy. I get it. And I had these days myself, for sure, to just think, "We're in a pandemic, I just need to research vaccines and transmission modes, or panic and start some new side hustle to make money to be sure that I'm okay or just sit and worry about my mom," right? I could do any of those things, but because of this North Star, it's a forcing function to stay on task and aligned with what you want to ultimately be doing in the world. So, that's how I experience it and how we help people along to do the same as individuals.
On the company level, we saw incredible things in these interviews and just the ongoing and work I do, we had an amazing... So, one great example is Leesa, the mattress company, right? And so, they had a new mattress on their product roadmap to come out I think in May or something, of 2020. And so, the pandemic hits and it's like, "Ooh, okay, what does this look like now?" They're deeply, deeply purpose driven. They have an incredible guru of a purpose-driven leader, CEO at the time. He's since moved on and passed on the reins. And so, what they did in those two months was create a new product, never on the product roadmap before because they didn't know was a thing, for respiratory patients in hospitals. Created the product, concept two hospital, in 11 weeks, which is 80% faster than any product they've ever launched before.
And then got back to product, said product that was supposed to go to market, finished up the last two months in three weeks, right? Less than half the time it was meant to take, got that up and running. While in the meantime, in the background, their colleagues have been shifting from a retail model to direct to consumer because of retail going away in a week. Because they know that their purpose is to have a world in which everyone sleeps well, including COVID patients now, all of a sudden, right? And by the way, also in the background of this was the pay reduction, because that's what they were able to do to keep everyone on board with really specific metrics about when they would bring that back, which they hit end of 2020, I think, and restored everyone to full pay.
So, it is not okay to say, like, "I don't have time for purpose, we're in crisis." It's like, "No, the way you're getting out of this crisis is by connecting to purpose when things get darkest and letting that guide you out."
SKOT WALDRON:
That is such a beautiful example. So good. And we think about purpose. Purpose is not a me driven thing, right?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
No.
SKOT WALDRON:
Purpose is an others focused thing. And that is, what are we doing to serve? What are we doing to better the lives of those around us? And in the midst of, "Okay, so that's what I have to do. That's my purpose." But as you were saying earlier, you've got to exercise to make sure you're doing things lovingly, right? We have to make sure we're taking care of the engine to drive that purpose, to make sure that we're being effective in what we're doing. So, I love that perspective and that example. That's so good.
When would you say is the right time to infuse purpose into what we're doing?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Now.
SKOT WALDRON:
Really? Now?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Now. Yep, right now.
SKOT WALDRON:
I can't wait? I couldn't wait maybe until after this pandemic thing is over?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
No, no. It needs to be now because you're always losing time and losing authenticity and losing opportunities for innovation and for engagement of your people and of your customers. Every second you spend not in purpose, you're missing opportunities and it doesn't have to be a Pulitzer winning statement of 12 words that is your purpose, right? I think people get wrapped up in like, "What does it look like? And is that the right word? Or is that the right phrasing?" But purpose is, you can't really put words to it. It's important to put words to it. I shared my purpose statement. We encourage all leaders to draft a purpose statement, just draft. We have a formula that I'm happy to share as follow-up and try it on and let it evolve. It's going to change, but have something out there.
But purpose is heart, right? You might use this word or that word, and those words might change, what it makes you do a day-to-day basis might change. But, you have to have that sense of heart in what you're doing starting now. It's like, when is the right time to breathe? Which by the way we don't do well either because our computers and screens make us breathe more shallowly and less often. The right time to breathe is now. You need oxygen. And purpose is truly as oxygen for us. It's what gets us through the day. And it's what's going to get your people on your teams through the day, especially in these challenging times, right? Because when the kids are screaming on Zoom school and the spouse is on the other side of the one bedroom apartment in the city, and the parents might be sick or not sick yet, if we're just trying to bang out quarterly results or fulfill the audit report that you sent down that you need for your manager, that I'm now charged with, you know what? I'm over it.
But if we're trying to make everyone sleep better, I got you. I got that report. Even though the kids are screaming at my husband is annoying and I didn't get to exercise yet today, but I'm going to tomorrow, right? It changes the game. And so, do not miss another moment without doing some little thing. Why are we here? Right? Just started a meeting. Sorry. Why are we here? What are we doing?
SKOT WALDRON:
Well, we're doing an interview right now, Nell. I'm just saying.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
We're doing an interview and we're doing it to spread love and working in a healthier, fairer way. And that's amazing. I'm so here for that, despite the fact that my puppy is a little bit sick and I have a doctor appointment next, and I was supposed to do 20 more emails this morning before, but I love that. I'm so excited about doing that with you, Skot. And so, here I am,
SKOT WALDRON:
And that's a driver, right? And when we understand that ourselves and we believe it when we feel it, and it's not just a blanket statement of beautiful fonts and words put on a poster in our break room or something, but it's something we live and believe, then not only are we going to be more passionate about that, but you're right. That employee, that team member, that intern, that just came out of college, or that's still in college, living that purpose will help them want to be part of that, right? And we're seeing that more and more of those younger generations and correct me if I'm wrong. But, the industrial age thinking is very different from the digital age thinking, right? And the minds that are coming up now into leadership. And there's a big gap, and there's a lot of turmoil within organizations right now with that generation gap, there's a lot of people talking about that.
But that purpose, those industrial age thinkers are always like, "What's going on with these young people? They should just be grateful for a paycheck. I was grateful that I had a paycheck, right? And they should pretty much respect me because of my position. I've been doing this for 30 years. They just need to respect me for what I am." And it's like, "No, no, no. No longer." Right? Younger generations are like, "I don't really care what your title is. I want to know how are you creating an impact, not only on me, but on the bigger whole, and am I part of something bigger or doing something better?" And I think that that's really that mind shift change. Have you seen that in your work?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Absolutely. And so, I think on the individual level, we talk about that motivation and that drive that purpose creates, right? Which is important. On the organizational level, what purpose is perhaps most magic for? It's good for a lot of things, but I think the trust that it creates is one of the most magic things we see, right? And so another chief people officer that I was speaking with talked about how they invest a lot in onboarding. And because of those first 90 days that they really talk about their purpose, their again, Bombas, you might know well, the fabulous sock company that for every pair we buy, which are very cozy and comfy, they give a pair to homeless shelters. Turns out socks are the most requested thing at homeless shelters and the thing they need most.
So, in the first 90 days, they do all this deep work around, "This is our purpose. This is why we're selling more socks, so we can give more socks away. This is the ethical sourcing that we're working on to make the socks." And he was clear about how they're a startup, they're growing fast, and so things are all over and they're not trying to break things, but it's tough. It's confusing. It's fast moving. Work is hard. And then the demands are a lot. But because of that purpose and that strong foundation, people are really for giving is the word he used, right? Because they trust that the CEO is this unbelievable guy, just so authentic and real in what he's trying to do. And very self-admittedly not a perfect human or a perfect leader as none of us are, but when stuff comes up and they have to freeze salaries because of the pandemic or pull back a promotion or change titles because they're a startup and growing.
They have this sense of trust that everyone's like, "I know why Dave's here, right? And so, if he's messing with something, it's not because he's a jerk or he's trying to pull one over on me, it's because he's doing the best thing for this purpose we're all working toward." And so, I think, organizationally or one-on-one in a team between manager and direct report, if I know that you're here to make sleep accessible for everyone, or to get socks to every person on the planet, again, I can get that report that you need last minute, or I can be forgiving when you have a bad day and snap at me for something. It's just a whole different dynamic.
SKOT WALDRON:
I love that aspect of it because that goes back into a little bit of my background, right? In marketing, sales, design and creating brands and building brand reputation for organizations. And what is one of the biggest things that hurts or destroys a brand? It's authenticity, when we're being inauthentic.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Yep.
SKOT WALDRON:
Right? And that purpose idea stems in, it flows right into that. You're talking about reputation and you're talking about building that trust to the point where, and I term it brand loyalty, right? When we have true brand loyalty and I go to that pizza restaurant I always go to, because I love them to death, they always take care of me, the pizza is amazing, I love the atmosphere, everything, and they mess up my pizza, I forgive them, right? I'm like, "Hey, it's good. It's cool." Like, "I get it. No worries," right?
And then they make it up to me and that's that relationship. That's an impact that we build through influence. And that really stems through having aligned vision and aligned purpose that drives us all forward. And like you said earlier, it's that North Star. It's that thing that guides us in the darkness when we are just beat down and hurting and scared and freaking out, it's like, "Hold on. What are we doing here?" This is what we're doing. This is why we're doing it.
And for Leesa to sit there and say, "What in the world?" They could have freaked out and said, "Everybody, okay, severance you, lay off you, and I'm going to preserve my own self. And then we just need to get this product out as fast as possible because revenue." Right? But they said, "Hold on, back up. What are we doing here?" And that's so relevant.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Yeah. And here they are, fully recovered again, fully back to salary, plus now bonuses. New CEO was able to step up, step in and take over from this very senior CEO on and they're off to the races. And in the DTC mattress business, which is pretty cutthroat and competitive, right? So, that's a cool story.
SKOT WALDRON:
It is. It is a cool story. So, and I get a little bit miffed of this too, with educational systems and the way we're educating leaders or students, business students coming out of school, right? Because you don't learn about this stuff in your MBA, right? It's not like I have a-
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
[crosstalk 00:23:17] An inspiring capital fellow when you spend your summer with us. Just saying.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Exactly. Which is awesome. The majority, right? 99.9% of the schools out there don't have a purpose class. They don't teach you about what this is or why it is and you may develop something in a business plan, like a vision statement or something like that. But really getting into that purpose thing is so important for why we want to do what we want to do. So, what's the breakdown there? Why should I care? Why do you care so much?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
So, my story is personal, as all of our stories are, right? And so, come back with me to when I was 12, I promise it won't take the whole rest of our time.
SKOT WALDRON:
Okay, we've got about three more hours left here, Nell.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
I can do it in two and a half. So, I was 12 and I was a sixth grader in this fabulous elementary school, public school in Hartford, Connecticut, which is where I grew up in with all due love and respect I can say it's a shitty New England city, right? It used to be the insurance Capitol and blah, blah, blah. Well, that has crumbled. And it's a bit down on its luck. But my school was this brilliant point of light. There was people from all over in terms of demographics, in terms of industries of work of the parents, in terms of different countries of origin, all these different people. We all walked to school. It was this beautiful, old, historical New England building. We had a Mayfair, we had these great teachers. It was brilliant.
The school I would have gone to for seventh grade was not. Drugs, gangs, crime in seventh grade, right? 12 year old gang members, pregnant, violence. Who knows if the learning was decent because there was just no time or space for it to happen. And so, my parents said, "Well, you can go to the private school or we can move because over the town line, 400 yards yonder is this lovely suburban public school system." So I went to some visiting days at private schools and I came home and twelve-year-old economics was like, "I don't want you to pay tuition. That's a big burden and weird. So buy a new house." Granted a little bit... But anyway, they scraped it together. We bought a house over the town line and I went on to this suburban district with AP programs and peer mentoring classes and blah, blah, blah, which launched me off to Harvard, and not to take away from my effort or my innate ability or my parents work.
But, the school system is absolutely a conveyor belt one way or the other, right? And I saw my peers who I had known since I was five go off into that reality of crime and violence and destruction. And no, they didn't soar off to the ivy's. And so that sense of, as they say, right? Talent is distributed equally, and opportunity is not, it was just so visceral for me that we were really getting something wrong with human potential, right? That's why I resonate so much with your writing about unlocking human potential, because we're not doing it from the earliest ages. Forget about the office esque office places that we run and how we're squashing creativity and brilliance in the workplace. It starts as kids.
So, that sent me on to wanting to change that and wanting to have a life of impact, which in the mid nineties, as a high school rising college student, I thought was non-profits, that's where, if you want to have impact you work in a nonprofit. So, I spent a decade in that sector, whole other episode there that we can do another time, but basically came to the conclusion that that wasn't enough, right? That the nonprofit sector is a set up to fail in a lot of ways. It's doing some amazing work, but it's 7% of American GDP. So, if I wanted to change the way we optimize human potential, it was not going to be in that 7% slice of our economy. It was going to have to be everywhere and specifically in business where the majority of people are employed.
So, that was really the aha. And then I got back to business school, saw a bunch of colleagues and classmates from all over the world. I was living in New York, but they were really global. And I heard from them and I saw walking around Manhattan, this gap, this hunger for the purpose piece. And so that was the aha for me, was like, "Okay, so we have these big social and environmental problems that we need to solve if we're going to survive for a few generations more. And then we have all these brilliant people with skills who want a sense of purpose. So, what if we got these two problems together and let them solve each other? Wouldn't that be magic?" And that's what we're trying to do now.
SKOT WALDRON:
That's awesome. So, it stems back to when you were 12. Which is around the same time when I changed my name to S-K-O-T so there's a lot of brilliant things-
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Sixth grade.
SKOT WALDRON:
... Happening in twelve-year-olds lives.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
One thousand percent.
SKOT WALDRON:
I love it. I love it. So, thank you so much for sharing that. That's fantastic. And to see that connection in that journey and that enlightenment that happens through our experiences and that's where your purpose is going to come from. Your purpose is going to come from those experiences, those things that we live and breathe and noticing that injustice in the world, looking and saying, "Hold on, there is something broken here and it's making me mad or it's breaking my heart, and we need to figure out how we're going to fix this," right?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
And it's costing all of us something, I think is the important piece too, right? It's not this pity or like, "Oh, that's such a shame." That's not the sense of it. It has to be a deeply felt sense of injustice of like, as a 12 year old, in my head, I lost friends, right? Because I wasn't able to have the same relationships with the same diversity of people in this new, somewhat diverse, but whiter, more uniform suburb, right? And now, as an employer, it's easier for me to think, "God, I remember Carrie from sixth grade. She was a bad-ass, I bet she is still a bad ass in some way, but she should've been my business partner, but lives diverged and that's probably not where she'll end up." I believe in growth mindset and so it's never too late, but you need to get some nudges and nourishing along the way to be able to land there.
And so, I think that's a really important part of it is, it costs us that we don't have universal healthcare because it's more expensive to my taxes. Because my kids are more likely to get sick at school. And I think that enlightened self-interest is actually a really important part of the puzzle because it makes it sustainable. It's not just like, "Oh, this year I'm sad about homelessness. And so, here's a check or I'm going to volunteer." It's a much deeper sense of why that's a problem, for me and my family and my business and my vision of the world. And then I really want to work collectively with everybody involved to actually solve it. Not just to soothe my ego or my guilt.
SKOT WALDRON:
Right on. If you could leave one soundbite with us that everybody's going to tweet out after you say it. No pressure.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
No pressure.
SKOT WALDRON:
No pressure. What would that be? I did not prep you for this. I'm so sorry.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
I'm an author, I have 23 of these queued up and just ready, which one is right? The one that keeps coming back that feels a little again, but that purpose drives performance, right? Purpose makes us better in the me, the we and the world dimensions.
SKOT WALDRON:
Right on. I'm going to tweet that after we're done.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
It's already tweeted.
SKOT WALDRON:
Well done. Well done. Going First. Awesome. Excited for you. That's coming out in early 2022 and there are people out there right now going, "What? Nell just blew my mind. I would love to get involved in some of this stuff, but in 2022, I'm going to.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
I'm going to be in Bali.
SKOT WALDRON:
None of this happened. So, what are you doing in the interim to help us have some kind of satisfaction until that comes out?
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Yeah. Plenty. There is a lot out there. I cannot stop talking about this. So, it's all over the place. So NellDerickDebevoise.com is my own personal speaker author homepage and there's a list on there that you can sign up to get notifications about the book. So, the first really exciting, or the biggest thing you'll get is the excerpt of the book is out next month. So, that's actually a free, available to anyone with a lot of the gems and the tools from the book. You don't have to wait until next year. So, sign up on that list at NellDerickDebevoise.com on the purposeful growth page to get updates.
On my Forbes column, I come out with, I write five articles a week on purposeful leadership for Forbes. And so, follow me, again, if you follow me on LinkedIn, you'll get those updates and links or just go to Forbes and find me. And we're starting some events next month as well that'll be free, open to the public, to leaders who want to be doing this better. So, for any of that, LinkedIn is a really safe spot. Just follow me there. I'm easy to find because of my unique name or on NellDerickDebevoise.com if you want to come right to the source.
SKOT WALDRON:
Awesome. You are doing a ton. Well done. That's amazing. I had no idea before we got on the call that events, books, setting up these extra... Well done. So, thank you.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Did I tell you about my two baby puppies?
SKOT WALDRON:
Oh yeah, that too. That too, that too. So, good luck to you. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your purpose with us as you go forward, good luck in all you're doing.
NELL DERICK DEBEVOISE:
Thank you. Back at you Skot. Here's to human potential.
SKOT WALDRON:
Purpose is impact. Purpose is heart. Purpose is performance. Purpose drives a lot of what we're doing, and it's not just this fluffy term that we don't need to pay attention to because of the generational gap that we talked about earlier, because it is inside all of us, we all want to feel part of something bigger and feel like we're doing something that's meaningful. If we go into a job every day, just the grind, and we're doing the same thing, the same mundane thing every day, and we find no end purpose, no end result in what we're doing, we are going to burned out, we're going to be unhappy, unsatisfied, and we are going to become toxic. Not only in ourselves, but to the other people around us. Purpose is the key to unlocking all of that, to unlocking our ability to have drive and to want to move forward with the people in our lives and do the things that mean things to us.
She gave some great examples. That Leesa example was really, really brilliant. I appreciate her bringing that up. And the me, we and the world, I really liked that as well, that the talking about the me, the we, how do we impact the people around us, and the world. And really, purpose fits into those. I've never really thought about that in my purpose work, doing that with companies in the past, I've never really thought about those three segments and how they really all play a role in purpose. So, Nell, good luck on your book launch. Looking forward to that and also the excerpt coming out here shortly. Everybody get your hands on that.
If you want to find out more about me, you can go to SkotWaldron.com and find more content there. You can like, subscribe, and comment on my YouTube channel. A lot of free content there for you in this space, short little videos to help you on your own journey of unlocking your own potential and find me on LinkedIn. I would love to connect with you there as well. So, thanks, again, for being on another episode of unlocked and we'll see you next time.
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