Unlocking Potential With Alan Hosking

Skot Waldron (00:01.586)

Alan, I am stoked to talk to you today. This is going to be fun.

Alan Hosking (00:06.54)

Good stuff. Likewise, Scott.

Skot Waldron (00:09.63)

Um, you're, your sense of humor and you're just, you're just fun energy before the show is just got me rolling. So I'm just like, let's hit, let's hit record and just go off this thing. Um, you have been in this leadership space for a very long time. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your background and, and what landed you where you are today.

Alan Hosking (00:31.256)

My last corporate job as an employee was with a major bank in South Africa as a manager of specialist training. While I was doing that job, I wrote a book for first-time dads called What Nobody Tells a New Father. And when that came out, the powers that be at the bank said, oh, we didn't know you could write, won't you help us with this, won't you help us with that. And then I moved into a strategic communications role. So that then

occupied for a couple of years. My last project with the bank was in fact with McKinsey. The bank was McKinsey's first South African client. They brought McKinsey into South Africa and that was a massive learning experience for me. What happened during that downsizing exercise? I became aware of the fact that they were favoring banking skills and I wasn't a banker. I didn't want to be a banker for the rest of my life. So I started looking around and then

found a couple of magazines on a contract basis and with contracts in one hand, I went to my boss and said, I've had a contract from you. He said, okay, we'll do that. And with the two hands, I jumped. And that's where I started my publishing career because essentially I had been playing the role of a publisher in the bank. So I went on my own and then in 2001, launched HR Future Magazine as a help for

companies to prepare themselves for the future of work. And as I was saying just now, no one was talking about the future at that stage, but it's become a very big thing today. And thankfully we've had a long run with it. We have international contributors from around the world, from around the globe. And one of the philosophical questions I pose to people when we talk about leadership is, does the future exist? The answer is yes and no.

The no part is that the future doesn't exist because it's infinite possibility and it could be anything. However, the future does exist in the minds of our thought leaders. And it's when we tap into what they're thinking that we get a glimpse of the future. And so that's what we feature in our magazine. Thought leaders, academics, experts, etc. Part of that, because I'm not a one-trick pony and I would get bored just doing one thing,

Alan Hosking (02:55.5)

I do a lot of leadership development and my training background is still very much a part of me. So, have a passion for seeing people grow and that's where the leadership development comes into it.

Skot Waldron (03:07.278)

That is so cool. So you, your magazine, is it, I mean, are you talking about the state of leadership today or is it really always just future oriented and thinking about those things as, and then using, I guess, today to get to those things or how do you structure that?

Alan Hosking (03:27.7)

You're right there. It's a bit of both because you can't, I've learned over time that you can't take people so far ahead that they've got no frame of reference. Because when you give people information, they feel the need, and I'll just explain it in a very basic way, they feel the need to hang it on certain pegs. But when you give them information that is so new, that is out of their frame of reference, they don't know what pegs to hang it on.

So they just disbelieve you. And I've learnt the look. When you tell people about things that are coming, they give me this look as if, now, that's not gonna happen. And I've learnt to understand that, but then dial back so that you take them from where they are and you've got to gauge how far you can take them into the future. So it is a bit of both, yes.

Skot Waldron (04:23.438)

So when you, did you get that look in 2011 when you were talking about this whole thing called remote work, did you get that look too?

Alan Hosking (04:29.028)

Oh yes!

Alan Hosking (04:32.944)

Yes, oh yes, oh yes. And then when I started talking about empathy a good few years ago, which is now a big thing, CEOs and executives looking at me and saying, one said, can't we talk, why is this touchy-feely stuff, this is not good enough. But that's what's happened today. You see, what's happened is that we have inherited a military model of leadership

Alan Hosking (05:02.816)

looked for when they were developing their theory, actually leadership theories, they looked at the leaders of who brought companies, countries through the war. And they said, well, let's look at their attributes and let's build on that, which is exactly what they did. Added to that, those who came back from active service went into jobs and they said, how do we run these companies? Like we were trained in the army. So you're the boss, and if you look at the...

the terminology in the business world, there's so much military terminology. The word company is an old French word that means a group of soldiers. So, you know, what group of soldiers do you work for? The word leave, recruit, operations. You talk about a chief operations officer. So all those terms, that terminology is from the military.

So now what I'm saying is, as we have done our time away from that second world war, where men, males typically were militarized all around the world, there's a demilitarization that's happening because generation, the younger generations are coming up and they haven't been militarized like that. So they kind of think, well, you know, what's all this military stuff? In addition, the pandemic provided a tipping point because

People then started to work from home because of the shutdown. And you can't command and control people in their own homes. You can't tell them what to do. So that's where the demilitarizing of leadership took a big step forward. And that's where the whole thing of now you've got to show empathy, you've got to show vulnerability. And those who have been steeped in that military model are very uncomfortable with that because vulnerability in the military

is a bad thing. You never show your enemy where you're vulnerable. It makes perfect sense. But now we've got to start showing it in a different way in the workforce. So we say, you know, a similar thing happened to me too, like that, you know, and I know what you're feeling. I'll get where you are. So you've got to show the whole thing of mental well-being and wellness. You don't do that in the army because you're sending people to their deaths. So that's not an issue, you know, suck it up and just get on with it. So it's been a fascinating

Alan Hosking (07:29.216)

evolution to watch how old school leaders have grappled with this thing of letting go and showing feeling and getting involved. I mean military, the top leadership doesn't get involved with the bottom people. Makes perfect sense because as I say they're sending them off to their death. So you can't get involved with them emotionally. You can't say oh shame poor Dave you know he's got a wife and two children. We know he can't go into active duty. He might get killed.

you've got to just shut it off and say, well, they've got to go in. However, things have changed today. So fascinating stuff.

Skot Waldron (08:06.158)

This is so fascinating. I, in all the years I've been doing this, I've never thought about that. And it's probably because I've never talked to you, Alan. And that is why. I love that frame of thought. That's really interesting.

Alan Hosking (08:20.236)

Fletcher, he will get you everywhere.

Skot Waldron (08:22.37)

Thank you. That's what I do. I flatter my people all day or all day, all day. Uh, this is fantastic. You're a big, you're a big advocate of this word potential. You talk about it quite a bit. Let's bridge that from what we've been talking about as far as kind of this leadership model, the mentality of leadership, where we are today and the idea of fulfilling potential is it.

Alan Hosking (08:25.612)

Thank you.

Skot Waldron (08:50.69)

Do you talk about it just leaders fulfilling potential or how leaders get their people to fulfill their potential?

Alan Hosking (08:56.532)

Both. You often find that if leaders are not fulfilling their own potential, they don't have the vision to set other people free to fulfill their potential. So it's on both sides. Yes.

Skot Waldron (09:11.37)

And I love what you just set them free to fulfill their own potential. Cause in my own, and we talked about this a little bit before the show, but the show unlocked is all about people not feeling free to be who they are and not feeling free to live out their potential. And this, the idea of being caged in. And I speak to people all the time, they just feel caged in and it's other people's.

Alan Hosking (09:23.734)

Woo!

Skot Waldron (09:35.906)

perspectives on them. And now maybe it's I'm new at a job. Maybe it's I'm just coming out of college and I'm just trying to, you know, soak up all the mentors I can. And there's just these expectations on me and I just live everybody else's expectations all the time, but not truly looking at who I am and what my potential is. And so I find that later on in life, we're still there. And then we're feeling caged in and locked in.

Alan Hosking (10:01.068)

Scott, one of the things that I advocate is people, and particularly when I'm talking to leaders, go on a journey to the center of yourself. Find out who you really are, because that's where your freedom lies. You see, we are socialized today, generally speaking, without realizing it. We're socialized to be like somebody else. You know, if I may use the expression, you know, it's a case of young girls dressed like Kim Kardashian.

and then you'll be happy and successful and accepted and popular and so on and so forth. But that socializing of being like somebody else to be approved, but we make a bad somebody else. It's only when we start to discover who we really are that we can start living in our own freedom. Because when we become comfortable in our own skin, that when I walk into a room,

There is no competition for me to be me, because no one can be me like me.

And this is not saying I'm better than others, it's just saying I'm unique. And I've got certain gifts and skills and qualities that are combined in a certain way, that see things in a certain way, and I can do certain things that other people just can't do. And it's up to me to find out what those things are, because the tragedy is that many people live and die never having discovered who they really are, what they really are in terms of the qualities that they have, and what they really can do.

Because once you get that, then you can start fulfilling that potential. And that's what potential is all about. I mean, it's the capacity to develop something in the future. That's what potential is. So, you know, I encourage young people to discover themselves. Older people as well. Go and discover who you really are. Because the person you are now is not the person you were 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

Alan Hosking (12:07.96)

And one of the things I advocate in terms of getting the different generations to work together is, I know people talk about it as reverse mentoring. I don't like the word reverse mentoring because reverse is going backwards. I call it co-mentoring. Where, you know, the old school, the old model of mentoring is, I who am old and wise will tell you who are young and stupid everything I know. Now it's a case of, I've been around the block a couple of times.

I can pass on a couple of things to you, but you know what? You as a young person, you know things that I don't know and I'd love to learn from you. So once that co-mentoring starts happening, then I as a more mature person start becoming more comfortable with younger people, because I understand how they're thinking, because I've been exposed to it and vice versa, they pick up from my experience and that also helps to develop my potential as well.

Skot Waldron (13:03.778)

What's the biggest obstacle for people when they're really trying to unlock their potential? What is that thing that gets in the way?

Alan Hosking (13:13.undefined)

I think there's a certain amount of fear and fear is a belief in a worse future, very simply put. And one has to convert that fear to hope, because hope is a belief in a better future. And you think about young people typically, they've got youthful emotions of enthusiasm, excitement, hope, optimism and all those kinds of things. And then as life happens to us.

As we got bashed about by life, we kind of lose those emotions and we develop cynicism and pessimism and so on and so forth. And that's not necessary. We don't have to. Because we choose our own emotions. We often say, you made me so angry. No, no, no. Somebody didn't make you angry. They might have done some damn stupid thing. But you chose to be angry. You could have chosen to laugh it off.

You could have chosen to overlook it, to ignore it, but you chose the emotion to be angry. And I remind myself every now and again when someone pulls in front of me on the road, you know, choose a different emotion, because you can choose to be angry, but it's not going to serve you. So choose something else that's difficult, but that's what you've got to do.

Skot Waldron (14:33.478)

And I was talking about as the situation, whatever just happened is neutral. It, it until we assign emotion to that thing, it's completely neutral. The person pulled out in front of you. Doesn't matter. You know, um, somebody came in, you know, destroyed your mailbox. Doesn't matter until you assign emotion to it. You know, and, and choose.

Alan Hosking (14:45.334)

Mm.

Mm.

Skot Waldron (15:00.822)

what you're going to do with that emotion. That's where the power comes in, in the self-discipline and self-awareness.

Alan Hosking (15:07.116)

Absolutely, absolutely right in terms of that power, because you become disempowered when you live your life with your emotions determined by everybody else. You're not in control then. And you talked about self-awareness. Another important thing, because I think it was Sheryl Sandberg, former CEO of Facebook, now Metta, she said,

change something that you're not aware of. And once you're aware of it, you can't help but change. And that's true. So part of developing people is to bring them to a greater level of self-awareness. Hence my point about go on the journey to the center of yourself. Because once you become self-aware, and I'm not talking about being self-conscious, that's a different thing. I'm just talking about being aware of your own emotions and saying, you know what?

I'm getting angry or I'm getting this or I'm that. You're aware of how you are. You also then become aware of how others are and you're better able to deal with that. So the fulfilling of your potential is part of you gotta become who you know who you are. And that's a level of self-awareness because otherwise you don't know what you're going to develop. And if you live your life unknowing, for example, my wife,

spent her whole life saying, you know, I'm just of herself, you know, very humbly saying, you know, I haven't got many talents and gifts. A couple of years ago, she just decides she's gonna go and take painting lessons and she paints the most brilliant stuff. I said to her, I will never believe you again, tell him you've got no gifts or things like that. She's, now that was inside her all the time and that potential has just come out and people are raving about your paintings because they are just jolly good. Now

Where was that? It was sitting dormant in her all the time. And as she just decided to explore it, so it came out and that's what we've got to do. We've got to have the courage to start exploring and trying. Innovation is part of that as well. It's trying new things. And that's what companies have got to do today. And one of the ways that you start innovation is by two words, what if. What if we were to try this?

Alan Hosking (17:28.34)

What if you were to start doing this? What if you were to stop doing this and change that? That's where innovation starts. And when you start innovating, you've got to accept you're going to make mistakes. Not because you're incompetent, but because you're just trying something you've never tried before. And you don't know whether it's gonna work. You might remember the Jim Collins book, Good to Great.

That came out in I think 2001 in fact. And you know, every CEO worth his weight in gold was running around quoting Jim Collins backwards and forwards and saying, yeah, you've got to get the right people on the bus and you've got to do this and you've got to do that and so on and so forth. Now, Jim Collins used the metaphor of the bus as a company. And he, you know, addressing CEOs, he said, you are the driver of the bus and it's your job. The bus is stationary and it's your job to decide where the bus is going to go. Now that was...

great for 20 odd years ago, because that metaphor assumes that the bus has got a road to ride on. Today there is no road. So the CEO has been driving the bus and suddenly it comes to a stop and all the people sitting in the air-conditioned seats at the back there say what's happened? Why have we stopped? The CEO says we've got to the end of the road. Now they've got to all get out of the bus and walk through the jungle, no map.

no compass, no GPS, they don't know where they're going. And that's what you've got to know yourself then. You've got to be an explorer and you've got to start using insight and intuition and judgment because there's no data to make decisions based on. There's no road signs to watch, okay, in 400 meters you can take the off ramp, not there. And what I'm saying is when you start innovating,

You've got to become comfortable with making mistakes. As I say, not because of incompetence, but just because you've never tried it before. Say, sorry, we tried it, we thought it was gonna work. It didn't. So we need to try something else. And that's where you've got to develop that courage to, and vulnerability, become comfortable with your vulnerability. Say, we're gonna get some things wrong. But if we don't ever try, we're never gonna find out.

Skot Waldron (19:49.347)

Which in essence is the idea behind the term exploration. When you think of explorers, early explorers, they didn't know where they were going. They just set sail. You know, we look at your

Alan Hosking (19:59.474)

No!

Oh, hell-

Skot Waldron (20:03.466)

your Viking ancestors, right? And we talked about that before the show, but they didn't know where they were going. They just went around and conquered and it's the thing they did. And when we think about, and I love this idea of exploration. I didn't think about that connection, but think about your wife having fear of exploring painting, because maybe she was embarrassed or maybe she thinks she was gonna be able to do it as good as somebody else and fear of that unknown in the future.

Alan Hosking (20:05.376)

I hate-

Alan Hosking (20:10.255)

It's wrong.

Alan Hosking (20:26.498)

You're here.

Skot Waldron (20:31.754)

Instead having hope of what the future could bring. If she tries this thing, she'll either learn that she's good at it or learn that she's not good at it and then be able to do something with that, whatever she chooses to do with that, but that, that failure in six and the process is what helps us grow and adds benefit to life. So I love that idea. Now let's talk about this season of life thing, because you've, you've put some ideas out there, your wife, um, and you've put some.

Alan Hosking (20:43.308)

Hey, huh?

Skot Waldron (21:01.258)

Other people, they're like later in their careers and things like that. And then you have younger people where we really want to unlock their potential because they don't really know who they are yet. But again, my breakfast this morning was with an older gentleman who is a few years from retirement and he wants to still unlock his potential. And so at what seasons in life are people really exploring this idea in your mind?

Alan Hosking (21:25.78)

Now you're a mind reader Scott, because when you talk about seasons, one of the things that I do with executives is I say, let's assume a lifespan of a hundred years, which is not unusual today, okay? We get it divided up into four seasons. And this is a template because it's different for different people. But the first 25 years, that first season is the season of survival.

where you've got to get an education, you've got to find out who you are, and you've got to get a job, and you've got to learn to stand on your own feet, you've got to learn to survive.

The second season is the season 25 to 50 is the season of success where you build your career, you make things happen, you get your homes and your cars and your dogs and your families and children and all that kind of stuff and you make it happen and you build your career.

Then you get from 50 to 75, the third season. And one of the things that I do is age management coaching for senior executives, help them to manage their age as an asset rather than allowed to become a liability. Now, typically, I catch these guys at 50s plus and they say things to me like this. I'm not enjoying my job. Now, these are these are people sitting at board level. One said to me, I woke up one day and I just thought.

The goals that I thought were important to me, they're no longer important. Now they can't share that with their colleagues because that's career limiting. So they internalize it. And they think, well, what can I do to regain my excitement in life again? I know I'll buy myself a sports car because they can. So they do. They buy themselves a Porsche or a Ferrari or something like that. And their friends say, hey, man, looking good. Six months later, nobody's commenting on it now. So that's worn off. So some of them, sadly, so.

Alan Hosking (23:22.132)

Make the mistake of thinking, younger partner. That's what I need. So they leave the wife and two young adult children, devastation, now they've got to go and find their youth now. They get involved with the younger partner, then they discover that the younger partner's got younger friends, half their age, and they don't want to hang out with these people, so they end up living in this social no man's land. They then also discover that the younger partner wants a child. Now they've done that, been there, done that, had their children already, now they've got to go through.

What they haven't discovered, they're looking for something that they don't know what they're looking for. What they haven't realized is that they've moved out of the season of success into the season of significance. And the reason, success is important, so they must go for it. But success is not your final destination. Significance is what we crave, because the reason that success doesn't fulfill us...

is that success is what we do for ourselves. Significance is what we do for others. And they then say to me, oh, so must I go and leave my job and save the whales? No! Look at your job and the resources that you've got at your disposal now to fulfill some form of significance that you've got. What is it that you were born to do to change the world? What is it? And the world is your...

you define what world you need to change. If some people, their world might just be themselves, a young woman who's grown up in an abusive home and she just wants to learn to stand on her own two feet, she wants to change that world, good for her. It might be someone who says I'm working to change the world for my family, good for them. Somebody might say I'm working in my little community, good for them. Somebody might say I want to change the whole world like the Steve Jobses and

Alan Hosking (25:18.676)

Bill Gates of the world, etc. who have literally changed the whole world for us. So you get to define the world that you need to change, but can't find it. And that's part of fulfilling your potential. Now, if you don't find your significance, you don't go into the last season, 75 plus, which is the season of serenity. You actually end up in the season of sadness.

and you die bitter, angry and full of regrets thinking what the heck was all this about. And now as I say, that's a template. Some people find their success a lot earlier than the 25 to 50. Some young little pop stars, for example, in their teams are fabulously successful. Some sports people, fabulously successful well before 25. So as I say, that's a template.

Other people sadly so never move out of the season of survival. They live from hand to mouth for the whole of their lives So as I say a template it's different for different people but that kind of gives you a sense of the progression that we should in terms of fulfilling who we really are because We each have something to do in this world and no one can tell us what that is Only we can decide what that is

And that's part of that self-awareness, self-knowledge, journey to the center of ourselves to find out what my potential is. For example, I'll just give you an example, a personal example. I, as a youngster, was sent off to music lessons, to piano lessons. And I used to, I was a very reluctant scholar at it, but my mother used to say to me, one day you're going to thank me for it.

Now, my teacher was doing classical piano. My teacher wanted me to be a concert pianist. And I had the technical ability to do that. But in my late teens, I got involved with the wrong crowd. I got involved with a bunch of jazz musicians and they wrecked my classical career forever. So I made a conscious decision.

Skot Waldron (27:34.577)

Oh no, not the jazz musicians.

Alan Hosking (27:43.576)

And then of course I discovered that music is a natural gift I've got. I can play the guitar, I can play the drums, I can play the flute. It's my natural gift. That is the gift I was given. I didn't know it at the time when I started out, but I came to discover and understand it. I however made a conscious decision not to go into a career in music because the hours are lousy and

The pay is not that good. I didn't think you could feed a family on what average musicians earn. So I haven't regretted that decision. However, I don't want to die with my music in me. So over the last five to ten years, I have written a musical of 20, 21 original songs. And it's all about leaving your legacy and touching other people with what you've been given.

to change the world in a certain way. So that's what I'm talking about in terms of fulfilling one's potential. I'm now engaged in talks with people, production houses to bring it onto the stage. So you've got to practice what you preach.

Skot Waldron (28:53.87)

Bring it to Atlanta, Alan. I gotta write my name on the ticket, because I'm coming, I'm coming. So let me ask you this then, because I am a big believer in, well, actually, let me ask you about this, because I want you to say it, and I tend to agree with you. What is your beef with leadership development? I mean, you develop leaders.

Alan Hosking (28:56.496)

I'm there. It's me at the door.

Alan Hosking (29:03.803)

I'm not kidding.

Skot Waldron (29:23.638)

What's kind of your biggest thing with leaders and the development of leaders and why, you know, at times it fails.

Alan Hosking (29:33.972)

Well, I think that it's not so much the leaders fault as those who are training them. And the problem is that the training doesn't result and the development doesn't result in a change of behavior. That's the biggest issue. So people go in a training program, great stuff, excellent content, not knocking that whatsoever, but information, which it imparts information to people.

and then expects that they will make changes in their behavior. Now that's an error of judgment because that assumes that we should still be learning in the same way that young children and young adults learn. In other words, school children and university students. They learn and that's right and good. They learn by, they do not have information or knowledge.

So it is imparted to them by their teachers and their lecturers. So then the teachers and lecturers say, we now want to establish whether you have the knowledge and the information. So you write a test or you write an exam. And once we see, yes, you do have the knowledge, you could then move on to the next step. And so we've made an assumption that that's how we must teach people, adults in the working environment. Bad mistake. Because...

Importing information doesn't change behavior. What changes behavior is insight. When people acquire insight, they make all the changes in themselves. When they see something in a different way, they can't unsee it and they will make those changes. So that's my biggest issue with leadership development that much of it is it's very good content.

But the way it is presented, it does not lead to the acquisition of insight. It rather leads to the acquisition of information. I have the knowledge, great. So now I can tell you this is exactly what it is. But that doesn't change the behavior. And that's why we find it as a failure today, because people don't make those behavioral changes.

Skot Waldron (31:55.722)

Good. I a hundred percent agree with you. I have a little saying that I tell them a lot of my, when I'm, when I'm doing workshops or other things where I'll say app information transfer doesn't lead to transformation, it's, it's. Really the idea of what you're talking about. And until we apply it, we aren't going to be able to have, I think the key thing that I'm missing and what I'm learning from this is that I believe in application, so information plus application is what leads to the transformation, but I think that.

Alan Hosking (32:08.566)

Mm-hmm

Skot Waldron (32:24.866)

through the application is where I'm missing this transition of insight, which I think is really brilliant. It's that it's through the application that I actually probably gained the insight to then bring the transformation because I practice it. That's where I become self-aware of either, Oh, this is something I'm great at. This is something I'm not great at. And I get those insights and I can do something with them. So.

Alan Hosking (32:38.185)

Hmm. Yeah.

Skot Waldron (32:53.352)

You agree there? I mean, what's your thoughts on that?

Alan Hosking (32:55.849)

Absolutely, you're right there. I like your transformation using that term because it is a transformation. It's not a jump from one thing to the next. It's transforming, it's evolving into something different.

Skot Waldron (33:10.99)

So tell me how do we take this idea of potential, this idea of where we want to unlock our potential. I believe there's an innate desire in all of us to unlock something. And in different stages, when I'm not sure when it's gonna hit you or when it's gonna hit me or what, right? But I think that we have it. How do we do it?

Alan Hosking (33:26.594)

Mmm. Mmm!

Skot Waldron (33:39.266)

Like, is there something you could give us? Is there like, what is, what is a step somebody could take to just start on that exploration journey?

Alan Hosking (33:52.862)

I'm thinking with my mouth, yeah.

Skot Waldron (33:55.734)

Okay, think with your mouth, let's bounce it.

Alan Hosking (34:01.172)

You've got to get people, I think, to want to do something. And that goes back to that thing of hope. When you give people hope, that belief in a better future, they have a desire to aspire to that. That's one of the biggest problems that we have with change management. We often say, people are so resistant to change. Yes they are.

Why are they resistant to change? Because they operate in the basis of fear. They believe that the change is not going to be better than what they've got now. It's going to be worse. So I don't want to go there. Whereas if you convince them and explain to them and persuade them and demonstrate to them that this is something that's going to be better, well bring it on. If I'm driving a small

car that's underpowered and you come and offer me a wonderful luxury posh car, well I'm not going to battle with the change because it's better, it's an improvement. And so as we help people to embrace that, they then develop a motivation to move to that better future. And one of the things that you've got to do as well in effecting change is over communicate.

Alan Hosking (35:25.366)

we climb to under communicate. And when it comes to change,

Skot Waldron (35:30.038)

Ellen, hold up, hold up. I got a glitch. You, you, the video totally froze for a second there. I guess it's because we're across the ocean from each other. But hold on, let's, let's start back at the clip about the car, like start, that's, that's where it clipped. It was, if I have a rundown car and somebody comes and brings me the posh car and then it froze. So I'm gonna, can you start again? That's...

That statement, let's just go from there. Is that okay? Okay. And I'll, I'll edit this out afterwards. Okay. But, okay, here we go.

Alan Hosking (36:10.488)

No one is afraid of change that they know is going to be better than what they've got now. For example, if you've got a run-down car and someone comes and offers you a posh luxury car, you've got no problem embracing the change because it's so much better, it's an improvement, it's much more comfortable. And in the same way, people are intuitively afraid, they just think no, it's not going to be better. And that is why it's so important for us to convince them and demonstrate to them that the change is going to be better.

and we're assuming that that's why you're making a change. I mean, what's the point of making a change for the worse? So one of the things that is important to do when you're undergoing a change management process is to over-communicate with people. Communicate so much that by the time the change happens, they say to you, yeah, it's okay, you've been talking about it for so long, yeah, now we know, we know, it's no surprise. And.

That's what you don't want. You don't want a nasty surprise. You want them to say, thank you, yes, no, we know. And then you've done your job well by over-communicating, by getting them to feel comfortable, feeling safe, feeling secure. And yeah, okay, we've got this. We're okay with it.

Skot Waldron (37:26.69)

That's what I wanted because I'm making the connection here and it's, it's something I'll use to coach a lot of my clients and then we didn't come up with it, the change equation, dissatisfaction times vision times natural next steps must be greater than the resistance you will encounter or change doesn't happen. So I'm dissatisfied maybe with my job, maybe with my purpose in life, maybe with the impact I'm making with whatever. So my dissatisfaction is high. My vision, what's your hope?

That's where hope comes in. Because if my vision is low, that's called hopelessness. I'm dissatisfied, but I don't have the hope that there's anything left in me, that there's anything left in this organization, that there's whatever. So that's hopelessness. But if my vision, if my hope is high enough, if my, the way you put it, belief in a better future is high enough, then I can start to implement and start to build on that potential.

that I believe is in me, that I believe is in you, that I believe is in all of us.

Alan Hosking (38:29.324)

Spot on. Now, you know, when you talk about belief, we don't, we underestimate the power and significance of belief. Because my sense is that if we're looking at words and actions as the final thing, you know, because that's what we're going to say and do, we're going to change. Track that back. It all starts with belief. It's what we believe

express and feel certain emotions, which then speak to our thoughts, which then speak to our words and actions. So we kind of address people's words and actions, because that's what we can see and hear. But all of this other stuff is happening. You think about the power of belief in a terrorist organization. It's a terrible example, but they are prepared to die for the cause because of what they believe.

So you say to them, will you blow yourself up? You want me to blow myself up? Sure, I'll do that because I believe. That's the power of belief and I'm not suggesting anybody should do that. But that's what belief is, it's so powerful. And so it's when you start addressing people's beliefs and get them to grasp that I believe that I can do this. I believe that I'm capable of this. I believe that this is possible for me. Then you got a rocket.

off they take.

Skot Waldron (40:01.654)

So good, so good. Alan, I could talk to you for three more hours, easy. But I'm sure that you will probably be going to bed by that time considering you're on, you know, across the ocean from us. So I want to thank you so much for your thoughts, your wisdom and the things that you've talked to us about. If people want to talk to you more, they wanna get involved in some of the thought leaders that you've surrounded yourself with.

Alan Hosking (40:10.911)

Thanks.

Skot Waldron (40:29.654)

whether it's HR leader or magazine or whatever, where do people go?

Alan Hosking (40:34.4)

They can email me at hrfuture.net. That's my email address and they welcome to email me. Our magazine's website address is www.hrfuture.net.

Skot Waldron (40:55.946)

And I have been there and there is some great content. So please people go check that out. And I see you're quite famous on LinkedIn. So everybody needs to go connect with you there as well, because you've got some good things to share there as well. Alan, I'm, I'm grateful for you and good luck and all you're doing and predicting the future of leadership in the world. I think that we have a lot to learn from you and, uh, grateful for all that you're sharing.

Alan Hosking (40:59.712)

Thank you.

Alan Hosking (41:23.988)

Many thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. Thank you.

 

 

 

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