Unlocking Recruitment and Retention With Gerry Gadoury

Skot Waldron (00:00.377)
Sometimes it gets boggier and then I don't know. It's been working fine, but yeah, just put it out there. Put it out there.

Gerry Gadoury (00:08.726)
Yeah, truly the thing that makes Riverside cool is that it records to your computer and then uploads, but that also creates a bogginess because it puts a lot more pressure on the CPU and GPU.

Skot Waldron (00:20.751)
Right. Yeah, I've noticed that too. And then my, had to switch my wifi cause it wasn't reaching well into my office and I don't know. all kinds of, I had two wifi's because one wasn't reaching. So I had to get another one. And I was like, this is stupid. Why do I have two wifi's in 2024? This is stupid. you know, my gosh. No, seriously, man. It was crazy. So, but yeah, it's all working.

Gerry Gadoury (00:38.67)
Yeah. What in the 1995 is happening here?

Skot Waldron (00:49.169)
Okay, well, cool. How can I serve you best today?

Gerry Gadoury (00:54.36)
Just let's have a good talk and see if we can make some great content.

Skot Waldron (00:58.417)
All right, cool. Well,

Gerry Gadoury (01:01.774)
I do have one question. Approximately when will this go live and can you give me enough lead time that I can advertise it on my socials?

Skot Waldron (01:11.537)
usually I'll let you know when it's been posted, with like, I'll give you a social graphic and some blurbidge and some of their stuff, to launch with it. so beforehand, if you want me to do it beforehand, then I can, I can make a note to do that and get my admin set up. Okay. And then tag me in it and then I'll reshare it with my audience. I kind of drip it out over time.

Gerry Gadoury (01:30.476)
Fine that's good enough I'll just make a LinkedIn post with whatever you send me when it comes out.

Yep. I know the dance.

Skot Waldron (01:41.371)
with different things. So yeah, cool. Feel cool. I know you do. How long you been doing your show? Cool.

Gerry Gadoury (01:47.51)
A year? Well, almost a year. It started last February. 10 months. Business mastery for startup scale-ups and early stage businesses. So my focus is the people side of the business. I work with companies on retention strategies and leadership, but my guests are all startup founders, VCs. I don't want the show to be just what I do. I want to appeal to my audience as an open end of the funnel.

Skot Waldron (01:52.451)
What what what's it about?

Gerry Gadoury (02:16.418)
That's why I wrote the book, you know, Trust and Authority. It's why I speak at conferences, trust and authority. So same thing. And then every probably 10th episode, I'll do something very specific to me.

Skot Waldron (02:28.177)
All right. Cool. Smart. All right. okay. Do you want to push your book?

Gerry Gadoury (02:36.578)
whatever, I'm not trying to be difficult and indecisive like your girlfriend or something. We can, that's cool if you want. I mean, my book and my consulting company and my podcast and my online course are all the same thing. Helping companies to be able to consistently attract, recruit and retain the top talent they need. So, all good.

Skot Waldron (02:40.059)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Okay. So it's mainly on recruitment or retention. Okay.

Gerry Gadoury (03:00.662)
Yes. So that's probably the big difference in what I do versus others is I acknowledge that the people side of your business is a solid cohesive pipeline from first contact with your employer brand straight through exit interview. So I don't emphasize one component over the other, though I do have three phases, the attraction phase where you build your candidate attraction engine, the recruitment phase where you capitalize on the engagement you created.

And then the retention phase where obviously build highly performing teams. The place I took this from is 30 years in the business, but most especially, I built a startup called Apicero. In five years, we grew to 2,500 folks and a 200. Okay, all right, cool. You got it dude. Yep.

Skot Waldron (03:45.361)
Save it, save it. Cause I'm going to ask you a question right now. and then, and then you can just give me the background. So cool, man. all right. Well, we're just going to swing it. you ready?

Gerry Gadoury (03:55.843)
You it. I was born ready.

Skot Waldron (04:03.877)
Okay. Alright, here we go, Gerry.

You ready?

Gerry Gadoury (04:15.063)
I'm ready.

Skot Waldron (04:17.659)
Welcome to the show, Gerry. How's it going, man?

Gerry Gadoury (04:19.946)
It is going great, Skot. Thanks very much for having me on. I truly appreciate it.

Skot Waldron (04:24.177)
Yeah, this is going to be fun. So as an experienced podcast yourself, I always feel a little pressure when I have these podcasts people on, I'm like, dang it. Now I got to like ask good questions because they're going to judge me with all my stuff. Make sure I do good.

Gerry Gadoury (04:36.46)
I'll tell you dude, it's all about having an authentic conversation and I'm sure we're gonna kill it.

Skot Waldron (04:41.295)
Yeah. Well, the first few minutes that we've spent together already, we're pretty authentic. So, I know that I'm gonna get authenticity from you, which is awesome. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. So give us the background. We're going to talk about today. I to really focus on this idea of, of recruitment and retention. want to hit on both of them. Okay. and the time that we have here and see where this goes, as, as being the.

Gerry Gadoury (04:49.71)
Awesome.

Skot Waldron (05:08.225)
the, the master of both of them. want to, I want to pick your brain and help you help my clients and my audience do the same. So give us a background first all why we should even listen to you in the first place with this stuff.

Gerry Gadoury (05:20.596)
Awesome. So I'm a former United States Marine. Most of my leadership skills started there and then grew and were transmorphed into more of a business focus as I matured through my career.

After leaving the Marines, I became a technical recruiter. I moved from technical recruiting to technology sales to branch management. I ran the entire New England market for Kelly IT, which in those days was a $6 billion piece of business. From there, I moved to management consulting, helping technology services companies to grow and expand. did recruiter training, I did sales training, I did leadership training. Then ultimately I started taking... on an interim basis executive roles, CEO, COO, president to help them to get to the next level. As part of that, I was blessed enough to be on the leadership team of a young startup called Appicero that in just five years, we grew to 2,500 employees across three countries, nine offices, and ultimately a nine figure acquisition by NTT data. And what we learned there really was the crux of the book that I wrote, Destination Employer, which hit number one on Amazon last January. It's the crux of the online program I designed, Destination Employer. And it's what my consulting company, Redbeard Solutions does for companies, which is that the secret sauce in any company is its people and the way that you engage with them is one cohesive pipeline. Now I'm monologuing, so I'm going to shut up.

Skot Waldron (06:54.607)
I love, no, no, no, no, no, this, this, that's what I want. So you've got some clout, like you built this thing. You've used this model, refine the model to not only use it yourself, but also to, consult teach coach speak, you know, write about podcasts about this whole method. so what is different from your method than say other people that are out there talking about the same thing.

Gerry Gadoury (07:23.942)
Great question. So one thing I neglected to mention that I should is and I'm sure this doesn't make me unique, but there's not many folks like me. I've literally sat at every seat at the table. I've been an external recruiter working for agencies. I've been an internal recruiter working for corporations. I've managed both of those teams. I've been and am a business owner. I have been recruited by external recruiters to work for a company.

I've been a hiring manager in a company that's both used internal recruiters and external recruiters. So I've literally sat every seat available, you know, for someone in the scenario, which has given me a breadth of experience that few have. I've learned how badly the system is broken from the candidate perspective, from the recruiter perspective, and from the owner perspective. And all of those things combined are really what led me to the successes that I've had in understanding that.

And here's the answer to your question in a long-winded way is that the mistake folks make is that they think that the people side of their business is a bunch of disparate functions that aren't directly related and connected. The system that I have built and build is one cohesive process that starts with the very first time a potential candidate engages with your employer brand all the way through until they leave your organization.

And by having one cohesive pipeline with systems that integrate, you're more efficient, but more importantly, most importantly, you're effective. Because to quote the late great Stephen Covey, you're beginning with the end in mind. If I'm trying to recruit Skot Waldron to join my company, I'm understanding what makes you tick, what you're trying to achieve, so that when I bring you aboard, I can create an environment that you will not only survive, but thrive.

Skot Waldron (09:20.059)
So the, the, the, the whole like people out there all disconnected. They believe this whole thing. What else is, is preventing. Let's talk about the recruitment process first, but what else is broken out there? What, what else is preventing companies from building a solid recruitment process?

Gerry Gadoury (09:39.35)
I will answer your question, but I will encourage your listeners to go to LinkedIn, scroll and just read the first thing that comes up. If they do that 10 times, I can virtually guarantee at least one of those will be someone talking about a horrible experience they had in applying for a job or a horrible experience they had in working for a job. The problem from a candidate perspective is that

They don't get responses and understand what's happening to them throughout the process. Very often the job descriptions are incredibly poorly written, so it's not clear what the company is looking for anyway. From the recruiting perspective, the problem is they get inundated with candidates of which a minuscule percentage are matched for the job. And they have to weed through all of that in a respectful way, because each one of those frustrating experiences is a real person with real needs to get to the few people they can actually hope to engage and that's true internal recruiter or external recruiter and then the problem from the hiring manager is that they don't get the candidates they need quickly enough. So it's literally it sounds like crazy talk but it's literally broken for every person involved.

Skot Waldron (10:57.211)
What's creating that?

Gerry Gadoury (10:59.35)
Yeah, you know, 30 years, I'd love to have a concise answer for you. But if you were to force me to, I would say what's creating the problem is the disconnect between what a business needs in its folks and what people want in a job. Not only has the workplace place as everything evolved over time, gosh, let's take a step back. Looking at our parents and grandparents, if you think of your parents or grandparents, the overwhelming majority of them either worked for one company or two or three in the entirety of their lives. Back then, if you worked for more than a couple of companies, you were a job hopper and it was hard to get meaningful employment. Then fast forward to myself, I'm 53. When I hit the civilian workforce in the early mid 90s, the expectation was you would stay at a company for at least minimum five to seven years per job.

Fast forward 10 years from that to early 2000s, it was three to five. Fast forward to now, it's one to three. And in some roles, it's one. So the employment landscape has changed and people's understanding of that hasn't kept up. So if you're an employee, you might be frustrated that your company won't invest in you. But if you're an owner, you might be frustrated because when you invest in an employee, they leave in a year, you don't have time to recoup that investment. Misunderstanding of the reality of the workplace, think if it's not the problem, it certainly exacerbates it.

Skot Waldron (12:34.833)
Okay, so that starts with the recruitment process though. So we're talking retention, but you're saying that starts with the recruitment process.

Gerry Gadoury (12:42.54)
my friend, you've fallen into my web. So it manifests in the recruitment process, but much like malady to a doctor where the pain manifests isn't necessarily the origin. It starts in retention because that recruiter needs to understand what a person, what a person's skills and experiences and desires need to be in order to succeed in that organization. So in the example I just gave of a person who wants to be invested in, that needs to be brought out in the recruitment process. If that company is not a type of company that would invest in a person, they need to know that then so they can cut that candidate loose because they're not gonna thrive there. Okay? So when you're building your recruitment process, the recruiter is the face of the company to the candidates at large. That recruiter needs to be empowered to truly understand what that company's trying to achieve. Said differently,

One of the leadership things that we teach is called the EFG framework, engage, fulfill and grow. Every person wants to feel heard and valued. They want to feel good about what they do and what the company does. And they want to be growing in their skills and in their career. If you hit on all three of those things, people have no reason to leave you. They're incentivized to stay and to perform at a high level. If those things are happening and the recruiter needs to understand how that works, so they can make sure that the personal missions values and goals of their candidates aligned with the companies or that fulfillment will never happen. They need to understand what that person is looking to achieve in their career and ensure that's available in the job or else that growth piece will never happen. So yes, you're right. It sounds like a recruiter problem. 100 % agree with you. But the problem lies in the retention piece, in the culture and workplace that that company is building. Did that make sense or am I being too wordy?

Skot Waldron (14:32.177)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I let's, let's throw this, let's throw this curve ball at you. Cause I'm sure this never happens. I am in an industry where it's really hard to find good people. And let's just put the paint this picture. I'm in an industry hard to find good people. I try, I try, try. can't find them. They're not here. I can't find good quality and find somebody a goal. like this, this nugget, this gold nugget person comes across. I'm like, we need this person bad.

Gerry Gadoury (14:43.448)
Yeah.

Skot Waldron (15:02.129)
So now they're going to say, Hey, well, I need, you know, I want somebody to invest in me. need some coaching. I need some mentoring, but we're not really great at that, but I'm going to make, I'm going to say we are just because I really, I'm desperate. need this person on. I mean, it would, it would do me well to just tell that person, that's not really our structure here or culture, you know, you know, whatever, like you're, you seem to be earlier on in your career. That's not really what we're about here.

You know, all this stuff. What do you talk about with those companies that are having those struggles?

Gerry Gadoury (15:36.802)
Before I answer your question, in your hypothetical example, assuming the recruiter were disingenuous, and let's call it what it is, lied to the candidate to get them to come aboard, how do think that story ends? Trainwreck.

Skot Waldron (15:51.291)
sure. I mean, the person doesn't stay, right? It's, it's the self-fulfilling prophecy. It all happens. Yeah.

Gerry Gadoury (15:55.726)
100%. You just hit on one of the reasons why 93 % of all startups in early stage businesses fail. The truth is that business is hard. That's a fact. When we were building Apicero, Apicero was a MuleSoft implementation company. MuleSoft is an API software. At the time it was the bell of the ball. Folks are super hard to find. I wasn't brought on to recruit.

I was brought on to build a go-to-market strategy for the country and hire the first sales team and lead them. It became rapidly clear that sales was not the problem. Getting MuleSoft gigs at that time was not the hard part. Fulfilling on them because everybody want, there were 12 jobs for every five people that we were looking to hire was the problem. So we had to build a system like every other bench-based consulting company in the universe for Marvel fan, the multiverse, we didn't have a bunch of money to spend on non-billable headcount. It just wasn't there. And investing in MuleSoft is hard. Salesforce doesn't give its licenses away. It's expensive to train and upskill your team. But we had a choice to make. And the choice was we can invest and incentivize those people not only come but to stay, or we could not. And...

Here's the story. We became partner of the year at Salesforce three years running. When we started to slow our growth because our growth was outstripping our revenue, Salesforce came to us and said, why are you slowing down? We said, we're having a bit of a revenue crunch. Here's our big fundraise. We said that they funded us. That was our big funding experience. We were bootstrapped before that. And we went on, like I said, to a nine figure acquisition in five years.

So the answer is you do the things necessary to create an environment where top talent will come. I call that becoming a destination employer. Becoming a destination employer means that you are developing a reputation in the marketplace where top talent can 10x their careers. If you do that, those gold nuggets you described come. If you don't, they come, they bounce, and you develop a reputation as a churn mill that nobody good wants to be a part of. Is it easy? No.

93 % fail rate.

Skot Waldron (18:20.581)
Yeah, your destination employer book, addresses, addresses these things. what is, tell me in the recruitment process and we're going to get onto retention. What is, what is something like kind of like an easy value add that you can give everybody right now, as far as something they can apply today to their recruitment process to make it better.

Gerry Gadoury (18:45.228)
I'll tell you, I'll give you a couple because there's, is such low hanging fruit. It's almost painful to say number one, stop treating your town acquisition folks like second-class citizens in your organization. Give them a seat at the table so they understand the things that are going on so that when they talk to candidates, they have real knowledge to share. What that will do is will raise their value in the candidates eyes and make them more likely to open up and share what's real for them.

So that's the first thing. The second thing, don't have them connect into the HR department at too low a level. I'm not saying anything to besmirch HR. It performs a vital role in the organization. The problem is the typical mentality of an HR person versus the typical mentality of a talent acquisition person are not in alignment. So an HR person, again, I'm generalizing just like our moms told us never to do.

But an HR person tends to be GRC focused. They tend to be focused on rules and making sure that the company doesn't get in trouble. And good, they should, that's awesome. A TA person is more like a sales person. They want to break things, they want to move quick. When talent acquisition connects into HR at too low of a level, everything slows down. And when things slow down, you lose the top talent. No candidate in the universe has ever said the words, awesome. A three month interview process, I can't wait for my 11th talk. That's just how you lose the best.

Skot Waldron (20:21.509)
Good. That's good. And I actually have seen that, where, and to the credit of this organization, that the, you know, the TA people are the, are part of the HR department. but they are communicating with HR leadership in that role, right? it's, it's not just the, you know,

Gerry Gadoury (20:45.069)
Yes.

Skot Waldron (20:49.413)
The legal side of HR, it's really the people side of HR that they're integrating with and the culture and learning development people. like there's, but I like that. I like the, just the mentality of. Yeah. When you get that there there's, you know, their goals are different. You know, you got risk averse with let's take some risk and you're going to get a little bit of that tension.

Gerry Gadoury (21:12.46)
Many years ago, I worked for an organization when I was still in sales, where sales reported directly to the CFO. Now, I'm still friends with the CFO to this day. He's a great guy. But talk about a misalignment of personality types and goals. You take the most risky group and then you tie them to the most risk averse. And it was nothing but thunder and lightning. You know, it was constant conflict.

If the CFO wasn't such a cool guy, it's such a great guy, it probably would have resulted in violence at some point.

Skot Waldron (21:45.541)
Yeah, I can see that. that's funny. Okay. Let's go. Let's go retention. What's broken.

Gerry Gadoury (21:52.002)
Yeah, super simple. People have to talk more. People need to share and understand. So again, I've worked with hundreds of startups over the years. I've been doing this phase of my career for more than a decade. I've sat as an interim executive in four different organizations. I'm currently the interim CEO of a company called Qualys One. And I can say this with the authority of having been a founder people in organizations have a tendency to tell the executive level folks what they think they want to hear because they know that there's more risk for them in conversations and there is reward in most instances. So the executive team walks around with a perception of what the culture of their company is, with the perception of what it's like to work there that's different than what it actually is for the people working there. So because they typically don't give TA a seat at the big boy and big girl table, when they're designing their plans and putting things out, they're putting out their view of the way things are, which isn't necessarily the way it is. Added to that problem, most companies when they're doing their workforce planning, again, TA typically doesn't have a seat at the table. So when they're deciding at the end of Q1, if we hit goal, we're gonna add X number of software developers, of Q2, X number of cybersecurity folks, end of Q3, X number of systems engineers.

They're not talking to talent acquisition. So they don't know what TA knows. TA has a finger on the pulse. They're talking to candidates every day, all day. They can give them valuable information. Those things combined create a lot of conflict inside the company. I talked already about the EFG leadership framework. This is solved by the E, engagement. Leadership, talking, having open, honest conversations with folks. Ray Dalio calls it...

I think he calls it brutal honesty or something along those lines. And I'll tell you, it sounds easy to do, but as a believer in it, it's super difficult because the first time that you shut a person up who's sharing their truth with you is the last time they share their truth with you. Whether you want to hear it or not, whether they say it as eloquently as you would like versus the frustration they're probably venting in an effort to share their thing. You shut that down, you don't get it again, and you build that bubble around yourself. So short story still longer, the easiest way to solve the retention problem is to engage with your team and short. And this is a problem that isn't immediately solvable in long-term term organizations. takes time. But when you're engaging and learning what your culture really is, you need to share that with the recruitment team. So as they're bringing new people in, those people match the way things are. As you're making changes, you're making changes in that direction. If I could give you a two minute extension on its answer, there was a very interesting though kind of disgusting social experiment done by social psychologists in 1970s called the monkey experiment, where they took a bunch of monkeys and put them in a cage. And in the cage, they put a ladder with bananas on the top of the ladder. And every time a monkey would go up the ladder to get the bananas, they would power hose all the rest of the monkeys. Not the one climbing the ladder, but all the rest. And what the monkeys learned very quickly was that they need to stop the monkey from climbing the ladder or else they'll all get sprayed. So the monkeys would beat up any monkey trying to climb the ladder and very quickly they realized to stop. Once they'd achieved that level, the social scientists would take one monkey in, out and put a new monkey in. That monkey would see the bananas, climb, get pulled down, beat up, and soon learn not to.

Over a period of time, they changed every single monkey out, but the behavior didn't change because the group taught that person that if you climb the ladder, you're going to get beaten. Same thing applies in a company. When you're looking to make changes in your culture, if you need to, if you don't do it en masse with consistent communication, then the existing behavior of the organization will either change people to fit it or cause them to leave. That makes sense if that wasn't too esoteric. But that's really the key thing. Engage with your team, make sure that they're happy with what they're doing and what the company's doing, and make sure they're growing their careers. Now, if one of those three breaks and in a well-run organization, it'll be to the G, the growth part. That's a natural ending. Don't make that painful. Skot, if I can't afford you the next step in your career and you're ready for it, you're not a villain for leaving my organization.

I didn't catch you stealing the family China and sneaking out a window with it. I can't give you your next step. You leaving isn't a negative thing. It's a positive because now I can bring a person in who can grow in that role and you leave happily. When you leave happily, you're now an ambassador for my company out in the marketplace. I can count on you to give positive feedback to the company. Heck, you might be a door into new business. A quick, very related story. Back when I was running staffing agencies, one of my recruiters who had some personal family problems that caused him not to able to stay with the company was my entry into three different companies. One of them became a $10 million a year revenue source. So when you play this right, there's real and tangible rewards for everybody involved. That was very worthy. Thanks.

Skot Waldron (27:27.695)
That was beautiful. It's like poetry. It's like poetry, Gerry. when, when you decided to go out and talk to people about this, it was because you saw a problem in the marketplace that you could go solve hence entrepreneurship. That's what we do. when you go out there and talk, can, is, is there a specific story that kind of punches you in the heart a little bit where you're like, that, you know, that one, it's that story. It's that journey that when I came in, there was something broken and then they did this thing and now they're this.

Gerry Gadoury (28:09.94)
Appicera is the one I tell most often because I tend to talk to founders and executives and having not only broken out of the 93 % failure rate, but also achieving a quarter of a billion dollar acquisition in five years. That resonates the most. But when I think of solve problems, I think of my government contracting clients. So I work a lot in the government contracting space. Redbeard is a service, disabled veteran owned business.

So I work a lot in that space. Government contractors, at least the ones I work with, I work predominantly in technology services, have all of the burdens of being a bench-based consulting company, meaning they've got a lot of overhead and can rarely afford much in the way of non-billable overhead. But they added to that, they have the slowest buyer in the world, the US government. They have regulations you wouldn't believe. If you engage me to work with you and it doesn't work out,

You might fire me, heck, you might even sue me. But if you work for the US government and you mess up, you go to jail. So it's a real ramifications when things get wrong. And when I work with these folks, more often than not, the business owner, the founder of that company is working at least one billable project, sometimes more than one, and trying to grow a company around that. And being able to take them out of that

I have one company that I'm working with, the founder, is billable 60 hours a week. And then on top of that is trying to grow a company. So when I can take that away from them, it really is moving.

Skot Waldron (29:56.763)
That's awesome. Yeah. The whole, pain, the 60 hours a week plus the extra we've been there that hurts.

Gerry Gadoury (30:04.652)
I will say our culture has become one where we look at people that succeed and we ask how they cheated the system. And I'm certain that absolutely happens for sure. But as somebody who lives in that space, when I see a founder make it, whether they're a VC funded founder that gets a successful exit and gets a pile of cash, or whether it's a bootstrap services company that grows the company to the point that they can have a life again and a significant income.

It's so beautiful because I've been with those people when they were on their fourth week in a row of seven days a week and 12 hour days. And when folks are looking with envious eyes, they never look back to that time. They weren't there for that effort. They only see golf on Thursday afternoon and another trip to the Caribbean. They never ask about the five years it took to get there.

Skot Waldron (30:59.761)
Yes. Yeah. The, dirty, the, behind the scenes, the not that so glitz and glamour. tell me about destination employer real quick. want to, I want to know the con the content. How, who's it written for? How's it written?

Gerry Gadoury (31:15.512)
Thank you. So we've wrote some around 50 reviews on Amazon, all of them four or five star, which I'm super proud of. It is a step-by-step user's guide to how to build the people side of your business. It encompasses everything that we've talked about today. It starts with, I break the destination employer process down to three steps, the attraction phase, the recruitment phase, and the retention phase.

So we, not that it's most important, it's just a natural starting part. Point we start off with how to build a candidate attraction engine. Once we've got that down, we move to recruitment. How do we capitalize on that engagement and make sure the people are bringing in meet the criteria of the company from a skill perspective, but more importantly, our cultural matches. So they'll stay. And then the retention piece, much like it sounds, how do we build them into highly performing teams that stick? But the key here.

It's not philosophy. It's not pie in the sky. It's literally what I've used over 30 years to build my own companies and client companies. And it's step by step. Do this, then this, then this.

Skot Waldron (32:25.819)
Very structured, very applicable, I guess.

Gerry Gadoury (32:27.426)
I'm a former Marine. That's the way where my mind is wired. Left, right, left, right, left, right.

Skot Waldron (32:30.097)
That's how y'all run. like it. Systems systems left, right. Yeah, that's good. That's good. all right. People want to listen to you talk about this more on your podcast. want to hire you. They want to just see what you got to offer. Where do they go?

Gerry Gadoury (32:45.934)
Easiest way is probably LinkedIn. I a spending an embarrassing amount of time there. I'm like a teenager on TikTok with LinkedIn. So my LinkedIn profile, you can DM me. You can reach out to me at my company email gerryg@redbeardsol.com. You can go to destination employer.co there's about a billion book a call buttons on that page. And if you want to learn about the book, it's on Amazon. So I'm super easy. If you want to listen to the podcast, it's on YouTube. Business mastery for startups and scale ups on my YouTube channel at Gerry Gadoury. I'm the easiest person in the world to find. I get written about fairly often in magazines. So if you Google my name, you'll find me.

Skot Waldron (33:29.073)
That's awesome. That's awesome. all right, Gerry, thanks for sharing your wisdom. Thanks for doing what you do. there's people like you out there that help make other people successful in what they do, and hopefully they can go on and make other people successful in what they do. So thanks for being part of the chain.

Gerry Gadoury (33:42.968)
Exactly. Thank you very much for inviting me to the show. I had a great time. I'd love to talk to you again sometime.