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Episode Overview:
"Unlocking The Communication Code" is an insightful discussion led by Jeremie Kubicek and Steve Cockram that delves into the intricacies of effective communication in personal and professional contexts. The conversation explores the significance of understanding different communication styles, emphasizing the impact of diverse perspectives and personalities on interactions. Kubicek and Cockram highlight the importance of fostering empathy, active listening, and adaptability in communication, providing practical strategies to navigate misunderstandings and conflicts. Their dialogue offers valuable insights into decoding the complexities of communication, empowering individuals to enhance their relationships and leadership skills through intentional and empathetic engagement.
Additional Resources:
Skot Waldron (00:01.271)
Gents, it is so good having you. This is awesome. I appreciate you being here.
Jeremie (00:06.788)
What's happening? How you doing, Scott? Good to see you.
Skot Waldron (00:09.727)
I'm good, I'm good. Steve, how's it over there?
Steve (00:11.958)
I am incredibly well, yes. I'm a little bit further ahead in my day than you boys and girls, but even here, it is still joyous, mid-November, and the sun is shining today, Scott. So we're celebrating the fact that we're still seeing, there's not a lot of heat in the Golden Ball, but it's definitely there.
Skot Waldron (00:22.703)
Wow, well we... There we go.
Skot Waldron (00:30.775)
feel like I'm in rainy London today. Like it is, it is that it is that where I'm at. So, but we needed some of it. Now, why didn't we do the show over there? That's my question. So, I mean, this whole virtual thing's a little overrated. I think we should have come over to your house.
Steve (00:46.998)
We spoke to your people and apparently the expenses budget didn't quite fix for you and John, we just went over. And Giant One was busy today.
Skot Waldron (00:51.963)
Is that what it was? Okay. Always a budget problem. What's this budget stuff? Let's, you know, whatever, whatever. Hey, you guys wrote a new book. It seems like you're serial book writers because that's what you do. Just let's say serial content creators because that's what you do. You have done that so well.
Jeremie (00:53.287)
Yeah, it was all budget. It's always budget.
Skot Waldron (01:18.247)
And have created impact for a lot of people all over the world, which is really, really cool. So let's talk about, um, the new book communication code and understand a little bit what that means for us, the audience. So let's go back to why you wrote this book in the first place. Um, Jeremy, why don't you kick off that one?
Jeremie (01:41.048)
Yeah, well, I think the secret to the book, and you mentioned it before we started, it's really is about relationships. And we've just seen the value of relationships and when relationships are done well. And but we've also fully realized between Steve and I how difficult it is, even in the best of relationships, to keep your communication, keep your relationships healthy, especially over time, especially over an ocean.
And so we really wrote this book, The Communication Code came out of our own failures and our own difficulties in trying to learn how do you communicate effectively? How do you share your expectations over time with someone that you care deeply about, but also just in everyday world? And so we thought how practical and we've been practicing the tool, The Communication Code, for eight, nine years. So
It was time. It was time for the book to come out. It was time for us to really focus on helping people to unlock relationships.
Skot Waldron (02:48.759)
You have your own experiences with this, as you've said, um, there's an experience that you relate in the book. And I've, I've heard the story mentioned before of, of you too. You said you've practiced this, you've failed at it. Um, something that you're working on constantly and yes, as business partners, uh, across, across oceans, it's, uh, you know, working on that. And you are different personality types. So you just communicate in different ways. Um, I want to hear the story.
Again, because I want my audience to hear the story. Steve, can you relate that?
Steve (03:23.694)
of where communication code was birthed, Scott, to clarify before I start. There we go. So, there you go. I thought you'd notice that. So Jeremy and I were having lunch at a little place called Jack and Alice, which is a cafe in Jarrod's Cross. And Jeremy kind of came in and was just really excited. He was saying, you know, this is great. I'm so excited. I finally put this deal to.
Skot Waldron (03:28.739)
There you go. Very good.
Steve (03:50.338)
bed, it deals with a lot of things from the past, it feels like closure, and we've also agreed ways that we can work together with this organization into the future as potential partners and revenue shares and all these sort of things. And I went, okay, well, I knew you were agreeing something, but I'm not sure I agreed to that. Why? It would have been good if we could talk through this or, you know, and so I went into, in some sense, going, I was a little bit
disappointed that we'd agreed to things that usually we're very good at agreeing together. And Jeremy looked to me kind of and just went, Steve, that really wasn't what I hoped would happen. I mean, what do you mean? He said, you know, if I'm honest, this was a really, really big thing for me. And I was so looking forward to sharing it with you. We've shared so many adventures. I was really hoping we were going to probably crack open a bottle of champagne, have a really nice lunch.
and spend most of that time celebrating something which for me is a really, really kind of seminal moment. And you celebrated Steve for about three nanoseconds before you launched into what felt like quite harsh critique of a poor deal I've made and that actually you're really disappointed with what the outcome is. And I, my hope was it, I had different expectations of this meal. And I said, well, why didn't you tell me?
I said, if you told me that you were hoping we would celebrate together for at least an hour over a glass of champagne and lunch, I said, I may not have lasted a whole hour because I would have had questions, but I promise you I would have lasted a lot longer if you'd actually given me a clue as to what you hoped and expected would happen in my response. So Jeremy said, look, I said, I was hoping to collaborate with you. Jeremy was looking for celebration.
but what he ended up experiencing on the other side of me was critique. So by the time we'd finished lunch, we actually had three of the five communication codes, again, coming out of our own experience, not out of us sitting down trying to think, how do we come up with an idea to put in a book because we've got a commitment with the publisher, actually coming out of, we have a real life situation.
Steve (06:10.83)
How can we codify that so that we can become more intelligent in the way we relate to each other? But by the end of the day, we had five Cs. And in effect, that began a process, as Jeremy said, that we've been using for at least six or seven years. But those five communication codes, critique, collaborate, celebrate, care, and clarify, all came out of that encounter of a disappointing lunch where...
Jeremy didn't communicate expectations and I certainly didn't meet them. Jeremy, what would you add to that? Well done, it just did.
Jeremie (06:41.556)
Yeah. Well, and, well, and I think, you know, we, we tell the story. I, I probably wasn't looking for champagne. I don't like champagne. It wasn't like an hour. It was over at lunch, but we were trying to just go, but, but what I was looking for was I was looking for celebration of like, I had moved the strategic conversations forward and we were about to land the plane, but I was like, oh my gosh, I worked so hard.
Steve (06:51.692)
Never mind, it's a good story.
Jeremie (07:09.756)
this is where we've gotten to, and we've finally had some breakthroughs with this strategic partner. And to be honest, it never actually happened. They were defunct eventually, but the idea of it, I just worked hard to get it to that stage. But what was interesting for me, if I look back and we write about this in the first couple of chapters, I was experiencing in that moment what I had experienced many times in the past from Steve, where I was, and the same thing, I had...
longed or I was wanting to celebrate us, not me, I was wanting to celebrate us what we were doing. And in the past, there was moments of celebration or care that I experienced critique, where Steve was, or my view of critique, where Steve was hoping to collaborate. And this was just another one of those moments. So it was like it all of the past showed up at this moment. And then I turned beat
Jeremie (08:08.604)
literally caused people to turn their heads and look our way. I mean, it was that much of a I was so frustrated. And so my desire for celebration turned to frustration. And I was like, this always happens. Why does this have to happen? And that was that and that so in that one setting that one moment, we literally we fought through it to create something valuable, not just it being a frustration event.
And literally now we've burst something out of our own pain because most people experience this. What the reality was, every communication that we have, each one of us, each communication has an expectation attached to it. And an expectation has a code word. And if you figure out the code word, you can figure out the expectation which will increase the communication which will benefit the relationship. And all we've done is
broken down the science of it so people can experience it and see it and do something with it. And that's what we're super excited about. And it took a really painful dinner and a lot of conversations to get us to this point.
Skot Waldron (09:21.539)
Well, you're here. You're here. I've often said that, um, you know, miss expectations are nothing but predetermined, uh, bitterness. And it's, it's this resentment you feel over time. It's this, you know, this re you're working on this relationship. As you both were and trying to build something and you're going to have different expectation, those misaligned expectations are where that disappointment comes in and if we can create more alignment, then there's some gold.
Here, I'm gonna read a couple of things you have right at the beginning of the book. And I want the people to listen to a few of these questions. There's five of them. And I wanna see if any of them relate to the listeners here. Why didn't you do what I asked? Or why is it so hard to understand what I'm trying to say? Or are you deliberately trying to annoy me? Or I feel like you never listen. Or why would you respond like that? This is a leadership book.
It's really a relationship book. I'm reading this thing and I'm going, you know, I don't lead a giant team of people anymore, but I was reading this in relation to my wife. And I'm going, how does this relate to me? And this is like, are you guys sure you're not like marriage coaches because that's the, I mean, I'm reading this thing, getting all this out of it. Um, but what would you tell?
Jeremy, let me come back to you real quick. What would you tell a struggling leader? What would be like the biggest point of advice for them right now in relation to this?
Jeremie (10:58.224)
Yeah, so it always starts with self-awareness, right? So you're getting to the point as you read the book, I'm gonna have one, read the book and go through it, but don't think about other people, think about yourself. What's it like to be on the other side of you? Can you see in a mirror that you have broccoli in your teeth? And we set it up in the first run, the first two, three chapters to get you to that point of like, oh my gosh, it might be me. It might be me, because if you start from it, it might be me.
there's a chance for a relationship to be unlocked. But if I'm like, I wish Scott would dot dot, now it's gonna put pressure in the relationship. So the journey of self-awareness is really, what's it like to be on the other side of me? That's where we always, always start.
Skot Waldron (11:47.395)
Really good, really good. Steve, let me, I'm going to read something else out of the, out of the book. You said relationships are like a puzzle. The problem is that you often need the picture on the box to understand what it is supposed to be like, and this book serves as that picture. I love that illustration. Um, what, what about the complexity of relationships and how we all communicate together, how does, how does that complexity, um,
I guess damage relationships and what's the potential for better relationships if we can all communicate better.
Steve (12:22.954)
I think, Scott, that one of the things that our conclusion, which is quite provocative in the beginning, that actually making long-term relationships stay healthy is the exception, not the norm. In our experience, it's really hard to make any relationship work long-term in a healthy, life-giving way. So once you actually think about that and own it and go, that's probably true, you're then into the question of going, well, what actually has to happen?
for that to be true. What are we trying to do? And the first thing people have to understand is that transmission of information is not the same as communication. And so I can be transmitting words, but if I've not communicated my expectations or how I want people to respond, when they respond back to me, and to quote the questions that you just said, and it feels like, Steve, you're not listening to me. You haven't heard. Why would you say that? What we end up with is it's not communication.
It's basically failed communication and in relationships that mean the most to you. They're the ones that have the capacity to cause you the greatest joy, but also the deepest pain that you usually the place Scott where people go to first when they're thinking about the application. So if we were to write a marriage book, most people wouldn't read it. If we write a business book, everyone reads it and then applies it to the relationships they would most love to see communication improve.
So it says unlock every relationship in your life, one conversation at a time. The issue is usually the relationships we want the most to be successful, usually are the ones that we struggle the most with, particularly when we have different default communication codes. And that's part of the science behind this. It's like, I can almost predict to you, you tell me that one or two people in your life that you go, God, I really wish our relationship was better.
But I've tried everything, Steve. It's not my lack of intent or it's not a lack of trying, but even when I try, it seems to go badly or it gets worse. We either miss each other completely or we collide. And I'll almost guarantee that the reason is because you have different communication codes and no one has ever given you the puzzle piece to go, look, Steve, your default communication code is a collaborating critique.
Steve (14:49.358)
Whenever I'm just me, that's what it feels like. And I like to think it feels like collaboration. History tells me it probably feels more like critique. So I've really tried to work at it. Helen, my wife, is care and clarify. Have a guess what happened lots of times in our relationship over the years. That's so much easier now. Jeremy, I think, was clarify and then celebrate. So as clarify, sorry, and collaborate. So we actually have a lot better chance of connecting.
but we still get it wrong occasionally, particularly when that critique piece kicks in. So, you know, you responded, Scott, to the book, The Way We Want Everyone To, which is to go, I could use this in every relationship in my life. Actually, if the world has a problem right now, it doesn't do relationships well. We transmit loads of information, but communication is probably less effective today.
than it's ever been and that includes the relationships that are the most significant to us. So, you know, Jeremy and I have really applied a lot of the learning to our own relationship and often to our spouse as well, because those are probably the two key relationships for me that I've applied and tried to work at in building and growing. And we're in a better place than we've ever been, aren't we, Jess?
Jeremie (16:08.408)
Yep, absolutely. And I think Scott last that pile on, I think the, the idea then for those listening it's we've created a common language and common language builds objectivity, not subjectivity. And in most cases, subjectivity is, why do you always, why can't you, I wish you would, you know, all of these, these trigger words and these trigger phrases. And we've actually just made it simple enough to take the drama out.
What are you expecting? Okay, I'm hearing you, but what would you like for me right now? And we're just giving the code to give to someone. So if you know the code and the other person understands it, hey Scott, I've got some things I wanna share. I need to clarify first. And then I really, really want your collaboration, but I also, I know you care, but I just want you to know how big a deal this is to me and please clarify before we start.
Well, now I've given you the code word, I've given you the sequence. So then if you then operate in that sequence, the chance of our communication to improve or be really good is really high. The chance for our relationship to get stronger is really high. All because we use these buffer words, these code words in the very beginning. And again, most people will share something, someone else will respond and the person will go, nevermind, nevermind. And they put a wall up, they back away.
and the other person is left clueless. I don't know, what's her deal? What's his deal? Man, he must have had a rough day. They go on, they never improve, and then the other person's just mad. And then over time, they just pull back and they get so reserved, and then the relationship tears apart, and no one ever knew why. Like, that's stupid. There's a better way. And that's why we want kajolians of people to understand the communication code.
because it will actually solve a lot of really, really basic issues.
Skot Waldron (18:06.947)
Brilliant. Well, I have half a kajillion listeners, so we're halfway there. We're close. I know, I know it took you guys a while to get on my show. So I appreciate you, uh, you know, sharing some stuff here. So you talked about default codes, Steve, um, your default codes. We all have them, uh, a tendency to communicate one way or another. Uh, Let's. What is the one?
Steve (18:12.963)
Good.
Jeremie (18:13.072)
That's so good. We were counting on that.
Jeremie (18:19.71)
Hahaha
Skot Waldron (18:37.347)
People want the most because you know, we transmit information a lot. Um, but there's also, like you said, the receiver of that information transmitting information is not communication. It's it's that transmittal back and forth. How do we transmit and receive information? And when we talk about this, Steve, the whole idea is, well, we often give things that we feel like we're either good at, or which is natural to us.
Steve (18:42.356)
Yeah.
Skot Waldron (19:02.755)
but oftentimes people want other things. And even though I'm good at this, I probably want something different.
Steve (19:08.574)
Yeah, I mean two things on that Scott. One is to say that when we ask people, what would you like people to do with your transmission first? Nobody says critique first, ever. The two that come out are usually clarify, which is I really love you to take the time to understand what I'm trying to say first. Ask good questions, pull it out of me, spend the time.
making sure you've really heard what I'm trying to say, rather than finishing my sentences, jumping in, assuming you can collaborate and critique too early. And I think the other one that underpins for a lot of people, particularly more relational people, is the care. I need to know you're for me. I need to know that actually, you're willing to be present with me and to actually that you are committed to the work, making this relationship work with me. So...
That's what people want to receive. But here's the problem, Scott, is 50% of the world's population are thinkers, according to Jung, Ian, Taipan, Miles Briggs, and 70% are men are thinkers. So there's another dynamic. If you have a thinker, or you're a pioneer, a guardian, or a creative pioneer in voices language, I will guarantee whatever you think is right to be on the other side of you, that critique is in the top two of your default communication codes. So think about that for a minute.
Nobody wants critique as the response to their transmission, that 50% of people and 70% of men will default, their default communication code has critique in the top two. So if you don't understand what's going on and you give no clues, the chances of somebody rehearing and receiving in responding in a way that you hope they would is drastically reduced. And if you weren't asking for critique,
And the other person thinks they're collaborating to help. How many times does it really go well? The answer is, if you get lucky and find someone who has the same communication code as you by default, then you can talk all day. It doesn't matter, you can offend each other, be rude to each other, be over caring, doesn't matter. But most of the time, particularly for those who are thinking in our kind of default, our issue is it feels like critique all too often.
Jeremie (21:31.6)
What's interesting though in that is that those people mostly men in this case who have critiquing They don't want critique from the other side They're not necessarily looking for critique from other people So it's an interesting and oftentimes they don't know that they're doing that. It's just become It's just a habit is what they're about. So they're not meeting ill intent for the most part But it's what is it like to be on the other side of you?
Because ultimately, they're trying to solve and fix. And that's what I do. This is logical. Well, here's the problem. Have you ever thought, why don't you just do that? And that can come across different to the feelers right in the world. So I think it's just important to again, know what's like to be on the other side of you, but also know who you're talking to those simple things that we do. We talk about it giant all the time. Know who you know, know others to lead others know yourself to lead yourself.
But that journey is so powerful. Once you figure that out and solve it, then you can get into your custom communication code because Steve and I have different things that we want from each other. So I want clarity. Well, if I'm with Steve, here's what I want. I want you to clarify first. I want to celebrate a little bit, but when I celebrate, I'm not celebrating me. I wanna celebrate.
us want to celebrate what we're working on as a group that we put in this hard work and do you see the progress I just want to celebrate a couple of sentences, nothing long, not a parade. And then care would be like, Hey, I just check in on me. Let's just let's shoot the breeze. Let's talk about sports. Let's, you know, text every once in a while, nothing big. Then when that's happening, what's taking place in the relationship side of me, the feeler side of me.
is I feel like I've got a buddy, I feel like I've got a partner, I feel like we're doing life versus it always being the just the transactional critique or transactional collaboration. I need to know that we're a partner, I need to feel good about that. Or the grace goes out and there's no oil in the machine and then it just feels like a transaction every time.
Steve (23:47.894)
That's been big for us, Scott, because as we've evolved our thinking on communication, the concept of a personal communication code, what Jeremy just shared there gave me lenses into how I can actually almost work ahead of the transmission. That's the other piece. So I don't know whether Jeremy will put words in his mouth. I've really heard the care one, which is, Steve, I feel sometimes I initiate the relationship. Can you text me? Give me a call when you're driving. Sometimes I go...
Jeremy so busy. I probably won't call now, but then I thought no actually the fact I'm calling or I'm texting is Part of the way that I show care it may only be a five-second. Hey, how's your day gone? But I've gone he's given me part of a code for him Which means I can actually do the preparation ahead of the transmission So that's the other piece of this puzzle sometimes if relationships are really struggling We have to go back and deal with the past we talk about that in the book
But there are other things in the personalized communication code, which has given me ways of actually being a better partner, a better friend that are not my instinctive default behaviors. Cause I'm like, well, I won't bother you if we haven't got an agenda because you're far too busy versus, Oh, you really want me to text you ring you, you know, so if I'm out walking the dog now, I go, well, it's late at night, my time, I'll find Jeremy. He might be in the middle of a meeting, but at least he knows.
I'm thinking of him and I'm actually doing what he asked me to do. But I wouldn't have done that before, or because it isn't the way I would by nature choose or assume was the right answer for me.
Jeremie (25:24.624)
And it's just water cooler talk. You know, it's like we're in the office. Hey, what's up? How you doing? How was your day? Nothing big, just check-ins.
Skot Waldron (25:33.423)
So what about the people though that like hate water cooler talk? So like that is a waste of time. When I get on a zoom call, I don't want to talk about the weather. I mean, I've had people that get on the zoom calls with, with groups and stuff. They'll get on five minutes later. So they know they don't have to do that part, you know, cause they know that that's going to be there. So they just kind of skip it on purpose. Um, what about those people?
Jeremie (25:53.976)
In our case, we're mainly talking about work or projects or like significant things. I'm not just saying, hey, let's just shoot the breeze and talk, I'm saying we're just checking in to keep short accounts, right? I think it's just important to understand if you want relational success with people, then you need to know who they are and then appropriately adjust. If they're a feeler, it just is, if you're a leader of them, people wanna work for people they like.
And if they don't feel the support, then after a while, their walls of self preservation will come up and you'll only get compliance. You won't get their engagement. If you want engaged people, you use the communication code of like, Hey, what do you need from me today? What would you like for me? What are the clues? Well, today I just love you to clarify. And then I want your collaboration. Awesome. I'm good at that. Great.
So then you practice those, right? So that's the beauty of it. It's actually a system.
Skot Waldron (26:57.167)
Yeah, that's gold. There's a like the what do you need for me kind of thing and relational dynamics. There's this YouTube video. It's pretty out there right now. The nail in the head. If you want to YouTube that right, the girl has the nail in her head and she's got a headache. And he's like, if you would, you know, there's a nail and she's like, you just need to listen, just I'm just trying to, you know, and it's he's like, if you would just she's like, No, it's just this, you know, that it's, I think people should
Steve (27:18.382)
Thanks for watching!
Skot Waldron (27:26.411)
you know, Google that nail in your head video there. It's brilliant. But it's kind of what you're talking about. It's like, you know, at the end, he kind of just goes, that's really hard. Like that's really tough. And I think we're talking about the care part, you know, more in that context and where that guy's just trying to solve the problem. And it is that relational dynamics thing of the wife's just going, no, I don't need you to solve my problem. I just need somebody to listen. And how many times do we get it wrong? Like what's the-
Steve (27:39.97)
Yeah.
Steve (27:46.071)
That's right.
Steve (27:54.626)
Oh, here's the thing, Scott, is when you really begin to dig into it, it's a miracle that any relationships last. Because how difficult it is to do communication well without tools, it's almost impossible. I mean, I joke and go, if Helen had given me her personalized communication code on our wedding day as a gift, it would have been transformational. Because when I read her, what she says about care,
and what it means to her and how that works. I'm like, of course. And then I look at it through the lens of all the times I've got it wrong over the years, 31 years on. Okay, for want of a simple toolkit, a simple vocabulary and language, it was never ever my intent not to communicate well. But intent is not enough when it comes to relational intelligence. You have to have tools, you have to have skills.
And you have to be prepared to do a bit of work on yourself. And that's literally, when I look at, if you, it's always easy describing from 10 years on what we've done. I'd love to say that we set out with this in the beginning as a marketing policy, but that never stops me talking about it like it is, is we've spent 10 years building a relational intelligence toolkit for people in the digital world. That is...
That is literally what's happened. And you look at all the things we've written, all the things we've created, you know, you said at the beginning, we are serial content creators, usually because of my inadequacy and incompetence. That's what usually triggers most of it. But what we've been done... And...
Jeremie (29:34.076)
in gold. It's a gold mine, but just keep mining it.
Skot Waldron (29:37.904)
Good, good partnership there. Good partnership. Steve, keep talking, keep doing things so we can write more books. Is that what you're saying?
Steve (29:42.652)
It's true. It's absolutely true. I mean, if I happen to get perfection, then the content flow would just end, Scott. I'm committed to continuing to be a recovering pioneer. But that's the thing is to go, it's when you look at the science of relationships, and you can break it down, and you can give people tools that are simple enough to children can use.
Jeremie (29:47.88)
Hahaha!
Skot Waldron (29:48.634)
Ha ha.
Jeremie (29:55.69)
uh
Steve (30:07.222)
then all of a sudden we have a chance to do something profound, not just in our own lives, but in the lives of the people we know. And, you know, wouldn't it be amazing if people were able to say, some of the stuff that we created actually led to a relational breakthrough in relationships. They wondered whether they'd ever be any different. And that happens every day, by the way, you know.
Jeremie (30:30.832)
I was in a just at an event and a really interesting event with some very, very significant. They were actors and NFL MBA, they were tech guys, speakers, really interesting group. Question got asked of them, can you on can you truly name five really, really close relationships? Do you have five and it was mainly these are all men. These were
male relationships, not just female, but and over 60% over maybe 70% couldn't. They didn't have five. And they had made it through their career. We see this all the time in our council or work with different leaders, CEOs, the desire to transact the desire to create the desire to win the desire to do all these things. Over time, it erodes your presence with people. So you're highly productive and under present.
And what happens then is it and then you don't have the relational clues or the codes like the communication code, it kills progress with people. Therefore, over time, you wear people out. And yeah, you might have won, you might have sold your company or you might have reached the top. And no one wants to be around you in the process. And it's like, wow, couldn't you actually have it a different way? Could you actually
leverage relationships, unlock relationships, build relationships that last. And that's really what we're trying to explore, which helps organizations, helps teams. This is a team book. This is a business book and it's a marriage book all at the same time. And so you, you said it right in the very beginning, Scott.
Skot Waldron (32:17.367)
I feel like something that's really cool that I did not expect in this book. I was familiar with communication code before. I've worked with you guys for a number of years now and, um, excited that you wrote this and I went into it kind of like, okay, I know this thing. I mean, I coached some of my clients on this thing and, but the way you wrote it. I told you, took me back. I was like, Oh, wait a second.
Hold on, let me rewind that part. And I'm gonna skip this part a little bit because I know this already been there. I was like, oh wait, no, there's some more insight in here. And one thing that took me back was the part where you're writing about is this even worth it? Like there's a section in the book where you're evaluating and giving the reader tools to say, is it worth it to invest in this relationship right now? Is it worth it, the energy, the time, because you're giving a part of your life and to the effort of this thing and easy to get, because
We talk about communication code as a way to just, assuming you're invested already in this relationship and you want to learn how to talk better, but wait, should we even be invested in this relationship? I thought that was really interesting. Um, Jeremy, can you talk to why you put that in there?
Jeremie (33:25.872)
You know, I have a number of friendships. I have a number, I'm a connector. So there's a lot of people in my life. And, um, I think I'm just getting to the point in the age and stage ago, I don't have one, I can't maintain. A kajillion relationships. And if I, if it's always on my shoulders, is this really worth it? Does the other person responsive? Do they even want that to be? And it was just a good pause and a reflection at the end of the book to go. We're not saying you have to be best friends with everyone.
We're not saying that every relationship can be in luck. We are saying so far as it depends on you, can you do the work? Can you actually be the peacemaker? Can you be the one who tries? And then it's up to the other person to see your intent, to see your work. And I think that's the beauty of the book. It actually gives solutions, but it's not Pollyanna. The end, you have to actually deal with reality.
Skot Waldron (34:21.274)
Amen. Steve, any last words for the audience here? What would you want? What's the biggest takeaway for you from, you know, you've been teaching this and, you know, preaching it for years, but now writing the book, concentrating on it, you're doing podcasts, you're doing your speaking events, you're doing all kinds of things right now. What's the main takeaway from this book for you?
Steve (34:43.565)
I think it's probably the content I enjoy teaching the most because it has the biggest transformational breakthroughs in the moment. I think the one, to give you an example, Scott, is I did this at a keynote in Manchester a few months ago. And at the end of it, the guys on the sound and lighting booth of a big event arena, because there's a number of them there, came to me and said, oh, mister, can we have a word? They were young Asian guys, young, probably 30. That's how old I am. And they said, oh, mister, can we talk to you? Oh, okay.
And they said, we have to listen to a lot of rubbish. There'll be a paraphrase of what they said. In our job most days of the week, we just had a coffee and talked about what you shared. But we thought it was one of the most profound things we've heard in a long, long time. And of the five of us, three of us think we might still be married if we'd heard that two years ago. So somehow, Scott, in the simplicity of the tool,
but in the profound nature of the revelation that it brings, it opens people's hearts. And so for me, I go, something magical happens when anyone engages with this content in a way that doesn't always work with everything else. So for me, I don't know anyone who finds relationships easy. I don't know anybody who doesn't have relationships they wish that communication was stronger or more effective or better. And actually to think that there is something
like you've just described, that actually really works. So I hope anyone listening is brave enough to at least read it and actually say, where could I apply this truth to my own life? Because there's nobody who's ever read this content or come into contact with it that hasn't had our hearts that have helped them with communication relationships. Now I sound like I'm preaching as an evangelist, so forgive me.
Jeremie (36:34.76)
No, no, no.
Skot Waldron (36:35.135)
Amen. Amen, brother. That's really, really good. Jeremy, where do people get a hold of the book? Where do they get ahold of you? If they want you to come speak about this at their organization or event, what, what do we do?
Jeremie (36:46.948)
Yeah. So the easiest is it's amazon.com. I think everyone's heard of it. There's more info you can take an assessment giant worldwide.com you can take a communication code assessment take a look. If you want Steve or I speak Steve is in England travels but you know it's got to be a special event Steve Cochran calm and then Jeremy Kubitschek calm which is a hard spelling you'll figure it out. But Jeremy Kubitschek calm you can look on the book.
is where you go to look at booking us to speak.
Skot Waldron (37:20.891)
Okay. Fantastic. I want to thank you personally for. Launching my life into the direction that it's gone into. Um, I, the, given us the tools and the resources to do that, to drive transformation in my own life was where it first took place. And now I want to do that for others. And you've, uh, enabled me and others to do that. And I just want to thank you publicly for doing that and being the people that you are, because you don't just talk.
the talk, you actually walk it. And, uh, I think that a lot of people that know you will say the same thing. So keep on preaching boys. I think you're doing a great job and I'm really, I'm, I'm privileged to know you. Thanks for being there.
Steve (38:03.758)
Thanks, Scott. So kind.
Jeremie (38:03.788)
Awesome. Thanks, mate. Appreciate you. Cheers.
