Unlocking The Emotional Source Code With Dov Baron

Skot Waldron (00:01.794)

Dove, this is a treat. I am grateful to have you.

Dov Baron (00:05.953)

Pleasure to be here, honored to be here, always looking forward to serving. And you know, if they only knew what was going on before we hit record. So we've already got some fun going on kids and we'll have some more.

Skot Waldron (00:15.154)

Oh, oh, let's just, let's just throw this out there. If any of you want to YouTube Australian Wheaties spokesperson voice, dog bear, I don't know. I tell you we can.

Dov Baron (00:29.925)

Yeah, or if you want a southern version of that, southern US version of that, or if you want a Glaswegian, we can do that too, and even an Irishman, we can go there too. Yeah, maybe not, it'll be lovely. Well, I'll get together and have a couple of paints. It'll be nice, we'll go down to pub tonight.

Skot Waldron (00:42.922)

Yeah, we'll throw that in there. We'll throw that in there.

Skot Waldron (00:50.702)

You've lived in enough places that I hope that you've been able to catch something, you know, um, with these accents. That's, that's amazing. Yeah. We've been cracking it up. So, uh, I'm grateful for you from, from going from CEO world, CNN, entrepreneur Fox, the next logical step for you in your career was to be on my show. So I, I appreciate you being here.

Dov Baron (00:52.65)

That's it.

Dov Baron (01:06.353)

Yes.

Dov Baron (01:12.721)

Of course.

Dov Baron (01:16.849)

Well, you know, I was just surprised that you weren't in front of those guys. I mean, come on. Forgot. I mean, come on. This is your show. I can't believe that these people managed to get in before you did.

Skot Waldron (01:21.814)

I am too, get out of the way.

Skot Waldron (01:29.142)

Oh, I know. I know you're just high demand. You're a high demand. Let me, let's, let's you've got a story and we don't have enough time, like eight hours to go into your story. Um, but give me like the grunt, the watered down version. It still needs to be impactful. Just like the smooth kind of like punchy version of your story, how you landed, where you are today and why you're doing what you're doing.

Dov Baron (01:37.281)

Mm-hmm.

Dov Baron (01:56.969)

Well, I'll start at the beginning and I'll do the reader's digest version. So I was born in Northern England, grew up in abject poverty, crime, violence, addiction, all those lovely things, lots of abuse and all kinds of nonsense going on. At the age of 10 years old, I was massively impacted by the assassination of Martin Luther King and that assassination made me realize

there was a possibility to make a difference beyond one's own family or one's own little community. I walked in the living room and saw my mom crying, pointing at the TV set, saying he's dead. And I was like, who is? And here's this poor Jewish woman living in a ghetto, crying, watching a black man I've never seen before, a black Christian man.

who, you know, to a kid was on the other side of the world. And I was like, really taken by, wow, there's this idea that somebody could impact somebody who lives so far away. And that really was the birthplace of my desire to have impact. As you know, I traveled the world to study with different spiritual masters. I studied Vedanta, which is Hindu philosophy, Buddhism, the Tao, Gnostic and Coptic Christianity, and Kabbalah, which is Jewish philosophy.

Um, and then got really, by the time I was about 22, 23, got really sick of all the spiritual people I met who couldn't get their poo in a pile. Uh, they, that's a, that's a euphemism and you can work out what it is. Uh, they couldn't get it together to hold down a job, make any money or hold a relationship. And I, I was already owned businesses by then, but I was struggling in other areas.

So I started studying psychology and I became a Jungian psychologist, had my own practice while running my other businesses, um, and loved Jungian psychology, um, started a practice, had a practice and got very sick of people moaning, complaining, sitting on the couch and wanting me to just listen to their shit. That didn't appeal to me either. So I started studying what was then called in the early eighties, the psychology of excellence today. That's called leadership. And I was working with people who were on

Dov Baron (04:16.945)

studying with people who were athletes, entertainers, CEOs, multi-generational wealth. I just wanted to understand, and what I found was a lot of soulless individuals. So that wasn't the answer either. Then in 82, 83, I stumbled into very early days of neuroscience, looking at cortisol, looking at what passes the blood-brain barrier, how does it pass the blood-brain barrier, and the process of addiction.

That also made me look into, again, stumbled into quantum physics, started studying quantum physics, particularly you Everett III's Many Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics. That was my first introduction, fell in love with that, and then started to put all that together of how could this all possibly come together. I'm a polymath, obviously, I study many different things, and the question that bugged me from being a kid was my...

My aunt and my uncle, my mom's siblings, were very smart. My aunt was very beautiful, very elegant, living in a ghetto, wearing Chanel blouses. And she was beautiful. And every now and then she would show up with a new boyfriend and braggin' about how wonderful he was. And I, as a kid of 10 or 11 years old, could work out, this is the same man with a new face. He's gonna end up beating you and taking your money. And they did.

And I became fascinated by this question, why do smart people do dumb things even when they know they're dumb? And that's what drove me into the psychology and the metaphysical understanding and all those things. And so as a result of all the things I studied, I began to develop understanding of personal emotional resonance fields. So these are quantum fields and understanding those in the context of something called the emotional source code. Understanding that

I started to develop that. And then in June, 1990, I was very successful traveling the world, studying, uh, teaching rather. Um, I was on major media at the 19 in the 1990s, um, TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, et cetera. And then, uh, in June, 1990, I was a free climber. I was an adrenaline junkie and fell 120 feet got smashed to pieces while free climbing landed on my face, died five times and had a

Dov Baron (06:44.513)

Approximately 10 reconstructive surgeries and fell into a very deep dark depression that I was in complete denial of Because I was a ghetto kid with a background in psychology. I'd boxed. I'd done martial arts I don't businesses on three continents. You can't put me down There's no way so when people say how you doing with my jaw wired closed. I'd say I'm great. I'm coming back I was full of shit. I wasn't great. I was dear darkly depressed and I had to confront that

There was an incident that allowed me to confront that. And I spent the next nine months gestating in that pain until I realized that I was not living the very things I was teaching, and that was what was needed. And so that was when the emotional source code got turned in and I started to look at it from my point of view. Now you should know at that point, I'd already been in therapy and done development and studied, looked at myself for almost 15 years. And if anybody had asked me,

Are you self-knowledgeable and are you enlightened? I might have egoically said yes, but there was a lot more to do and there was a lot more depth to do. And as a result of that work, that's led me into working with these athletes, entertainers, political figures, et cetera, very high profile individuals who have gotten to the place in their life where they want to make a massive difference. And they have made a massive difference, but in a...

in a way that's not fulfilling to them. So they're like, I've got the house, I've got the car, I've got the yacht, I've got a house on the island, I've got this or that or the other thing. Why is something missing? What's missing, Dove? They've gone to therapy, they've gone to coaching. What I do is not those things, it's far deeper than that. And from that, they find what we call the why of their why. It's the deepest, it's a spiritual.

but non-religious purpose of that drives their life. And if we don't understand what drives it, it will drive us negatively if it doesn't drive us positively. So that's the long version of a short story of a very, very long story.

Skot Waldron (08:53.978)

Unreal man. Well, I will say whoever your face doctor was did an amazing job. I mean, your face look, your face. Seriously. I mean, you can't even tell. I mean, it's, it's you've done it. Yeah.

Dov Baron (09:00.342)

Thank you.

Dov Baron (09:06.397)

Well, when I first fell, it was a mess and they put me together very badly. My cheekbones were completely collapsed, my roof of my mouth was crossed over. So they thought we met like a deaf accent. And I was very poorly put together and you can see some pictures of that online, but it took a while and they put me back together. But this is a long, long time ago. That's, you know.

Skot Waldron (09:34.322)

Yeah. It's been a while. It's been a while. Um, coming back from that, I mean, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually has got to take a toll on somebody, but it also speaks to the kind of person that you are and the kind of person that I think, um, we can look to and say, you know what, we all have our moments. We all have our falls from 120 feet, maybe not literally.

Dov Baron (09:36.005)

more than 30 years ago. Yeah.

Dov Baron (09:44.734)

Yep.

Skot Waldron (10:04.122)

Uh, but we all have them and it is the, you know, we're going to have to have some reconstruction done at times. We're going to have to figure out what it's going to be like to move on from that period of time and that period of life and how do we, how do we bounce back? How do we find out what what's in us in order to grow and keep moving forward?

Dov Baron (10:15.169)

Mm-hmm.

Dov Baron (10:26.601)

But there's somewhat of a trap in what you're saying Scott. And if you don't mind, I'm going to just push back a little bit on that and say this and, and the, it's, it's not about, uh, it's not about resilience. And that's part of the lie. We tell ourselves, you know, one of my sayings is if you get knocked, if you living by the, the statement, get knocked down seven, get up eight, you're an idiot.

Skot Waldron (10:31.836)

Oh, please push back.

Dov Baron (10:51.165)

Get knocked down once, stay down, work out why the hell you're on your ass. That's far more important. And so it's not about resilience in the way that we know it. You know, you suggested the idea that I'm different than others and I don't know that that's true in any other way than I was willing, became willing, I was not willing, I became willing to say,

And this is what I tell people all the time, you said it, we all have falls, it's a heart attack, it's a divorce, it's a diagnosis, it's a loss of a loved one, you know, it's a bankruptcy, there's all kinds of ways to fall. The question is, what is the fall waking you up from? So what have you been sleepwalking through? Thinking it's your life, and what is it there to wake you up to? How can you serve in a greater way?

And you can't do that while clinging onto your ego. And you go, I'm very good, I've got my ego. No, you know what, I would have said the same. But here's what, if you wanna understand your ego, your ego's not bad. Your ego's good, everyone needs an ego to survive. But what you've gotta look at is the ego identity. Where do you need to be right? Every time you go into battle to be right, your ego's running the show. So as opposed to just saying, hmm.

Let's get curious. All those religions I studied, all those philosophies I studied, and people ask me to this day, what's your religion? I tell them, my religion is curiosity. I'm deeply curious. I want to remain curious because it allows me to be open-minded, it allows me to learn, it allows me to grow, and it allows me to love, it allows me to have compassion and empathy. So it's not about getting knocked down and getting up eight, it's about getting knocked down and realizing you've been knocked down for a reason. Not because you're bad.

but because you're off track, you're off track, it's there to wake you up from, and it's there to wake you up to. The question is, will you examine that? As you listen to me right now, as you play this back, as you even consider it a couple of weeks from now, what is it there to wake you up from, and what is it there to wake you up to? The devastation of the situation is merely that. It's an alarm clock.

Skot Waldron (13:18.178)

Can we talk about another, uh, misconception or something that I, you maybe you'll you could spend for us too, a little bit is this idea of potential. How about that one? Uh, I know you talk about this. I want to, I want, I want everybody else to hear what you have to say.

Dov Baron (13:25.589)

Mm-hmm.

Dov Baron (13:29.522)

Oh yeah.

Dov Baron (13:33.437)

Yeah, I do. I talk about this in the context of my corporate work and even in my private work. And people will say, you know, I know I have so much more potential than I'm living. Or, you know, we keep this person on because they've got great potential. And I'm like, potential is a big fat effing lie. Potential means nothing. When I was at school, by the time I was 10 years old, my art was in galleries.

everybody thought I had the potential to be an artist, including me. I'm not painting or sculpting anymore. I'm still an artist, but not in that form. So potential doesn't matter. What matters is are you stepping into that? Because if I see the potential in you and you don't want it, it doesn't matter. It's a big fat lie. It's me manipulating you into something. So potential.

as in I'm seeing potential in the other, is I'm now going to manipulate you into the vision I have of you. As opposed to what is your potential? What is it that you hunger for? What is it that you deeply desire? What is the difference you wanna make? How do you wanna make that? And what resources do you have within you that you can bring to that? So if you're keeping somebody employed because of their potential, you are stealing from your organization. And you're actually stealing from that individual.

The question is not whether somebody has potential. The question is whether what they want as their potential. I had no idea, no idea when I was an artist that I had potential to be a speaker around the world. I didn't know that. It was beyond my imagining. So the truth of who you are is far beyond the potential that you can imagine. And we as leaders have a responsibility. And the responsibility is this, is.

to see in others what they cannot see in themselves and to present it to them and see if they are emotionally and soulfully pulled to that, but to not in no way direct it. My job is to hold it for you until you're strong enough to take it on your own shoulders. And then when you can do that, that's great. But my job is not to say and go here with it. No, no, that's manipulation. I'm not interested.

Dov Baron (15:56.477)

I want to serve your soul, not your ego.

Skot Waldron (16:00.846)

Let me ask you this then, I'm holding it, I see how great it is, and I see the gift it could be to the world.

Dov Baron (16:04.661)

Mm-hmm.

Dov Baron (16:11.293)

Is it yours or someone else's you're talking about?

Skot Waldron (16:15.518)

Well, I'm going to say it's mine for now. And, but I, I will say that based on my knowledge of you, based on the understanding I have of you, based on whatever's going on, I feel this is something you would like, I feel this is something you would go into, I feel like this is something you've mentioned to me in the past, maybe not in these words that I'm holding in my hands, but you've said something and as a leader of my family, as a leader of my community, as a leader of my

Dov Baron (16:17.17)

Okay.

Skot Waldron (16:44.938)

team, my business, how do I and myself, yes sir, how do I lead you to the fountain? I can't make you take it, but isn't it my job to lead you here in some way?

Dov Baron (16:47.361)

and hopefully as a leader of yourself.

Dov Baron (17:03.285)

So my job is not to lead you to it, my job is to elicit from you what it is that there's two sides to it. And it's all, everything is yin and yang in the universe. So my job is to elicit from you the, what it could mean in the world, and what it will cost you not to go there.

So the truth of the matter is that most people will never explore their own deep greatness. And the reason they won't is because they're so afraid of losing their identity. And so your deep greatness requires you to abandon your identity. And not entirely, but the identity you've held. So if I say, who are you? I remember one of my great teachers, Bhatsare, doing this with me.

annoying the hell out of me, but it was a great exercise. And he just, you know, he said, who are you? And I said, well, I'm Dove. No, that's your name. Who are you? Oh, I'm a man. No, that's your gender. I'm a human. No, that's your species. And we went on this whole thing and realizing that I had no clue who I was beyond the labels. And so the problem with it is, is the more successful we become, the more we stack the labels. And so the cost now is

tearing off the labels is, oh that could cost me this, that could cost me that, that could cost me my self-esteem, that could cost me my credibility in the world. Yes! Alright, let's say all that's possible, now we go to the other side. What will it cost you not to go there? Well, nothing is the answer. Because I already have all these things. You're absolutely right. It won't cost you the things you have. What will it cost you not to go there? What do you mean? Simple question.

If you die with this inside of you, who will suffer if you don't write that book, Scott? Who's going to suffer on a general level? Doesn't really matter. There's enough books out there, but now I want you to imagine that somebody going to pick up that book by Scott, it's going to change their life. It's not the book. It was, it arrived in the moment they needed it.

Dov Baron (19:28.978)

It arrived at that.

transformational moment where a soul was crying out for one sentence of somebody to validate this possibility and they read your book and went holy crap that's it that's the thing and you go well I'll never know that person great absolutely great what do you mean my purpose in life is to impact that me dog

The purpose of my life is to impact the lives of the people whose names I do not know, and whose names I will never know, and who will never know my name. If my purpose is about me and my name and my reputation, then it's not my purpose, it's my ego. My purpose is to impact the lives of those who will never know my name, so that they can live the life that they came here to live, and they can serve in the way that they came here to serve. And you don't have to be a billionaire, you don't have to be a political leader.

Try being a parent. Try being a decent partner to your partner in life. Try that. How often do you thank your partner for being with you? I thank my partner every day. Every day. 25 years married to the same woman. Every day. I thank her every day. How often do I thank her for the meals she cooks? Every day. She has no obligation to cook for me.

She says, but if it didn't cook, you wouldn't eat. Probably, but that's not the point. I'm grateful for that. How much time do you spend acknowledging the gifts in your life? Take the time for that. How many lives are changed by that? I went and got a haircut and the woman standing next to us was doing eyebrows. And she says, oh, I met your wife and I was telling her about my wife and how amazing she is and blah, blah.

Dov Baron (21:26.013)

She goes, and she goes, yeah, she seems a lovely lady. The next time my wife went in, she went in to get her eyebrows done by this lady. And she goes, oh my God, your husband loves you so much. And my wife says, I know. He tells me every day. And she goes, oh, that's such a treasure. Is it, really? Or is that just the way it should be? Is that actually how we should treat our people? How often do you walk around your organization and actually have a conversation with the people who work for you?

Find out who they are and actually ask them and give a shit and let them know that you actually appreciate them being here even though they could be somewhere else. Even though you're going through hard times in the organization. Even though they could find a better job.

Like step into your own deep greatness does not mean your egoic self. It means the greater part of you. Step into service. So that potential quote unquote within you is worth nothing. It's a waste of time unless you enact it into the world. And for me to show you how to enact it, I have to elicit from you how you've built the identity that's serving your ego. And it's not bad. It's allowed you to survive.

But I also need to elicit from you the cost of not stepping into your deep greatness, owning the emotional source code of what drives you to make a difference in the world. Because you're trying to do it. You're just trying to do it under the guise of your own ego. And that's not, when I say you, please understand, as you're listening to this, yes, I am speaking to you, but I'm speaking to me because I'm not better than you. I need the reminder every day myself. I'm speaking to...

every one of us as humanity who is living in this world where we are driven for success and significance and applause and all the other bullshit that ultimately won't matter on your deathbed.

Dov Baron (23:25.205)

Preach! I feel a healing coming on!

Skot Waldron (23:29.755)

You are blessed. That this, yeah, I was waiting for that, uh, Tennessee accent to come out. No, I feel, I feel like this, this is, you know, you've said so many things. I think that when I think about you, you said service twice. Um, when I pick it, when I picked that up and I will tell you.

Dov Baron (23:39.022)

I feel a healing going on.

Dov Baron (23:51.476)

Mm-hmm.

Skot Waldron (23:56.322)

that you've spoken about ego, you've spoken about service, you've spoken about recognition of others. And I will tell you a quick personal thing. So my older brother was addicted drugs and alcohol. He was my professional homeless brother that that's what he did for decades living on the streets. And

Went to 12 set programs, did a thing and worked through that. And it just, it never really hit with him. You know what hit him? You know what finally turned him around to where now he's a thriving married. Amazing. He was all, he's been amazing, but like feeling amazing, being able to now do for others, it was service and the whole program that he ended up going through was. Twice a week.

They made meals and they went out to the streets and they served the people and then brought them back and served them. And it was all in the name of service because addiction is a selfish act. Addiction is all about me. And when I can flip that around, I think that maybe we aren't addicted to drugs and alcohol, but there's other addictions in our mind that kind of hold us back from

serving others or causes to focus maybe on ourselves a little too much, that act of service is what finally took the focus off him and was able to do for others. And that is ultimately what, and he's still doing it. Now he's created his own ministry and he's doing that. And it's just, it's impacting so many people that.

Dov Baron (25:49.161)

And that's a powerful and important story that needs to be heard. And I want to add to it by saying, is that okay? I want to add to that by saying this, listen, I live in Vancouver, one of the most beautiful cities in the world. About 10 minutes walk from me going east is one of the largest homeless populations in North America.

Skot Waldron (25:58.498)

Please, yeah go.

Dov Baron (26:16.293)

Vancouver is an incredibly wealthy city. Right? You can't buy an apartment. Five hundred and fifty square feet is about a million dollars. So, you know, that gives you an idea. That's part of the reason there's so much homelessness. And you'll see these people stumbling across Hastings Street, stoned out of their brain or drunk as a skunk or whatever it might be. And it's very easy to judge them. But have you sat in the alleys with them? I have.

Have you talked to them? I have. Here's the thing you need to understand. When I told you I looked at neuroscience and spent a lot of time in that, part of my understanding was it was an addiction. I was fascinated by addiction, fascinated by why, again, why do smart people do dumb things even though they know it's dumb? It was part of that same question. And here's what I know, neuroscientifically, as you listen to this,

As you're thinking in your mind right now about someone you saw past or is in your family who you judge as a drug addict, I want you to consider this. Every human being, you and me and your minister at church and all the other people, we're all addicts. Every single one of us. The opioid receptors exist in all of our brains. Well they don't have the willpower that I have. Bullshit. It's got nothing to do with willpower.

I'm calling it out right now in no uncertain terms. Why do you have opioid receptors in your brain? Think about that. You have them. Just like the drug addict does. Why do you have them? If you believe in God and God created you, why did God give you opioid receptors? Did God go, oh, let's see how this will roll. Let's roll this, see if we can roll a double six on this and see which one comes out in that. No, opioids or receptors are there to help you with your pain. Now,

You have to go, oh, okay, a minute.

Dov Baron (28:16.337)

Let's look at that. Here's the answer. Everyone you meet is in pain. Everyone. Don't care how happy or wonderful they seem, they're in pain. There's some wonderful interviews with the Dalai Lama talking about his pain. Right? This man who seems to be the picture of enlightenment talking about his pain. Jesus was in pain when he flipped over the tables outside of the temple.

Moses was in pain when he killed an Egyptian. We're all in pain and we're all looking to alleviate that pain, feel better. And we're all doing things to feel better. Now how do we do it? How do we feel better? Well we feel better sometimes by ingesting things that will change our neurochemistry. I.e. heroin, cocaine, whatever it might be. But here's the thing, the best pharmacy in the world is between your ears. That's the most powerful pharmacy in the world.

You create every drug on the market you can create and do create. So here's the thing. How do you get your hit? Well, I don't drink. I don't do drugs. No. Do you volunteer 40 hours a week at the church? Yeah. Is that your addiction? No, no, that's a good thing. I didn't say it wasn't a good thing. I'm saying, does it alleviate your pain? Does it stop you from looking at what you need to look at that you need to heal?

but I'm serving in the soup kitchens. Is that easing your pain? I'm not saying easing your pain is wrong, but it allows you to have compassion and empathy and curiosity about another human being. They simply took a different path than you did. And the way you're easing your pain may get social applause and theirs may get social condemnment, but the bottom line is...

Every human being you meet is in pain and we're all trying to alleviate our pain. So have some bloody compassion. And that will give you the room to look at your own ego and go, okay, how do I hide? Because I'll tell you something, I've worked with these amazingly powerful people and guess what their number one drug is? Success. Their number one drug is success. They feel better because they get to the million dollars. They get to the billion dollars.

Dov Baron (30:34.973)

But there's a guy I know very well who talks about getting this multi-billion dollar check, like deposited in his bank account because he sold his company. And he talks about how he fully expected to be ecstatic and felt nothing. Now, that's not always the case, but even when it's not the case, it doesn't last. It's like, I thought it would last. It doesn't last.

Think about the new car you bought. Wasn't it pretty damn exciting? It was wonderful. Wow, I got that car. I really wanted that guy. I got that car. It was great. Three weeks later, what was it? It was a motor transport. You might've showed it off to your friends a bit more, but it was a motor transport. You didn't even think about it. But before you had it, it was gonna be everything. What's your heroin? What's your cocaine? What's your drug of choice to ease your pain?

And if your drug of choice is serving in the world, great. But don't think you're better than the people you're serving. You're not. I'm not better than anybody I serve. I have to tame my ego every turn, just like everybody else.

Skot Waldron (31:47.574)

What's all this have to do with this idea of the emotional source code?

Dov Baron (31:53.429)

So the emotional source code, as I said, came out of all that work in all the different polymathic areas. And so people go into therapy or coaching or whatever it might be, and they say, I have this shitty behavior and I want to change it. It's damaging my marriage, it's damaging my business, damaging my leadership, whatever it might be. I go, okay, can you help me with the behavior? I definitely can help you with the behavior. Oh, great. Can we start?

And they go, why? Because it won't matter. What do you mean? If you're doing the behavior and you change the behavior, it won't stick. Oh, why not? Because behavior is an outcome. It's not a route. Oh, okay, well, what do we have to change? Well, what are the beliefs and values that you have to support this behavior, even though you know it's a crappy behavior?

Oh yeah, I never thought about that. Okay, good. So let's examine the beliefs. So we were examining the beliefs and the values that you've adopted that are not yours, that you think are yours, but you've been living in the cult of whatever it is, maybe the cult of your own family or the cult of being American or the cult of being Brit or the cult of being whatever it is.

Dov Baron (33:12.413)

and you've adopted a certain set of beliefs and values from that, all right. So if I change those, will it, can you help me change those? I can. Will that stick? Nope. Will it stick better than change of behavior? Sure, but it won't stick. You'll always be questioning. And they go, oh, well then what is it? So we've gone from top level five, behavior, four, values, beliefs, paradigms. Paradigm is a set of beliefs that come together. Okay.

What's below that? Identity. Oh. But let's just leave identity where it is right now because it's the center of the wheel. Let's jump down to the bottom level, which is the emotional source code itself. Well, what is that though? The emotional source code is the emotional marinade that you soaked in as a child in your formative years. It lasts, it's longer than that, but those are the dominant ones.

It is your emotional DNA. And up until the 90s, we had this idea of the primacy of DNA, which meant that you are your DNA. That's who you are, right? You know, if your dad was a mass murderer and you've got that, you know, that's in your DNA. Well, that's not actually true. Now what we know is epigenetic reality, which means that cells turn on and turn off, genes turn on and turn off.

depending on what's in the environment of the cell, the epigenetic response to the cell and the epigenetic of the cell, what's responding, what that's responding to is what is released from your brain, the neurochemistry. And what fires off the neurochemistry? Well, everyday things can fire it off, but the neuro connections, again, we're in neuroscience here, neurons that fire together, wire together, the more that a neuron fires in a particular direction, i.e. I'm a piece of shit.

If that keeps firing and you're looping that in your head over and over, then that becomes a neurochemical response. It's not just a connection in your brain. There is a neurochemical cocktail that says I'm a piece of shit that is flushed into your body, picked up by the receptors on the cells and put into the put into the genes. Well, if it's put into the genes and the genes say, I can be happy and healthy or I can feel like a piece of shit and walk around depressed. But I've got all this neurochemist. I'm swimming in. I'm a piece of shit. Well, guess what?

Dov Baron (35:36.849)

You act like, you behave like, and you neurochemically and biologically respond that way. So that's your emotional source code. Now, is it permanent? No, it's as permanent and real as your DNA. It can be switched on or switched off, but it can't be switched on or off until you understand that it's there. Because the next level of, well, what keeps it in there? And here's that, so now again, thinking of cells, the content of the cell, you've got the gene in the middle.

And around that is the cell wall. What is the cell wall? What does the, because the cell wall allows things in and pushes other things out. The cell wall, using the cells as a metaphor, is the anatomy of meaning. So now we've got the emotional side, go to the bottom, and then we've got the anatomy of meaning directly above it, which is the cell wall. What does that mean? It means the meaning you give something is the meaning it has. It means what you.

what you believe it to mean is reality. It's not truth, it's just your reality. And so what does it mean that Donald Trump is going to run in 2024? Well, if I ask somebody in a red hat, they're gonna have a very different answer to somebody in a blue hat. But if I ask the red hat, where do you get that idea and I do the emotional source code, I guarantee you I'll find it in their emotional source code from when they were likely under 12, but definitely under seven.

But if I ask the person in the blue hat, why do you think he's the devil incarnate? I'll also get to their emotional source code. It's not truth, it's meaning. So the anatomy of the meaning that we've given things is what matters. So if we're gonna change the behavior, we have to look at the emotional source code, the meaning we've given it based on the circumstances of our environment. And we only created that meaning for one simple reason, biological to survive. Out of that meaning, we developed an identity.

and we hold into that identity in order to survive, and we build beliefs and values and systems to support that identity. So of course I'm a Christian, of course I'm a Jew, of course I'm a Muslim, of course I'm American. No, that's an identity you've built on top of the anatomy of meaning. And as a result, you've got all these values, you've got the beliefs, and that's just your behavior. And that's what's running our world.

Dov Baron (38:02.013)

That's what's running the world leaders. That's what's running the people who vote for dictators. That's what's running the people who set shit on fire in the streets. And that's what's running the people who are running ministries or whatever else they're doing. They're not good or bad. You can look at them that way, or you can look at them objectively and say, this is an emotional source code response. So when Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine, people ask me, you know,

leaders, big people came to me and said, we need to understand this. So I wrote the emotional source code of Vladimir Putin. I read enormous amounts of research on him from when he was a boy all the way through. And I wrote this report, the emotional source code of Vladimir Putin. And it allowed people to understand why he does what he does, even if it doesn't make sense. I did the same thing on Donald Trump in 2015 and said, this is why he will win the election. I've done one on the United States of America.

What is the emotional source code of the United States of America? I got to that. So I know what drives Americans as a mess. I did it on English people on England, not on Britain, but on England, what drives them by understanding that is a national emotional source code. There's an organizational. So if you have ABC, Inc, you've got emotional source code there. And if you're an individual and by understanding those, you can change the behaviors, you can change the meaning and you can get to outcomes that really serve at a much.

higher level for not just you but for something much greater.

Skot Waldron (39:37.43)

The architect has spoken. That, that is so fascinating. I am going to go find, can I go find those articles? Are they out there?

Dov Baron (39:40.053)

Thank you.

Dov Baron (39:43.615)

Mm-hmm.

Dov Baron (39:48.389)

Oh, absolutely. So the emotional source code for Vladimir Putin is actually on my website. It's on DoveBaron.com. You can find it on there. It'll explain that to you. It's a downloadable. I boiled it down as simply as I possibly could. Five simple pages is easy to read. The one on Trump I turned into two articles. One was called Decoding Trump, Decoding Donald Trump.

And the other one was, I can't remember the name of it, because it was 2015, but you can find it. Just put, Dab Baron Donald Trump, it'll come up. And they're actually our videos on YouTube that I did about them as well.

Skot Waldron (40:29.858)

Okay. Gosh, it's so, so fascinating. And I love that thought about how all of this really it's, it, it is the deeper. Stuff, right? I know a lot of us, you know, and I'll even say the way that we treat people medicine wise, it's like we treat those symptoms and we look at the surface level stuff and my, we are, and

Dov Baron (40:50.525)

We're a symptomatic society. We're constantly looking. You know, when I go into a corporation, I say, what's the problem? And they tell me, I go, that's not the problem. And they go, oh yeah, okay, well, so what's deeper? Oh, well, it's this. That's not the problem. If you've not gone five, six, seven levels deep, you're not at that yet. You keep treating symptoms, not because you're a bad ove, because you're stupid, but because you live in a society that's trained you to look for answers.

at the surface. If you keep cutting the heads off the weeds, the weeds don't go away. Like we're a symptomatic society. And so of course we have an opioid crisis. Of course we have an economic crisis. Of course we have a homeless crisis. Because we're looking at things all completely wrong. We're looking at the electric system. We're looking at getting rid of petroleum. Oh God, like come on, wake up. This is, you're looking at a symptom. You're looking at a symptom.

Do I like electric cars? I do. But you know, you're going to plug them into a grid that's fallen apart. A grid that is in the United States, mostly run on gas and oil. You know, OK, well, you're going to plug your electric, you feel good because you plug your electric car into something that requires fossil fuels to run. You kind of miss the boat. I still like electric cars, but it's not a solution. We're not looking at the real problem and.

That's why, you know, I think I appreciate you recognizing that when a lot of consultants go into companies, they're, they're trained to respond to a symptom because the, the organizer of the company can say, we brought in Charlie Brown and he's the top expert on X, Y, and Z. And he shows this. And then they come to me three years later and go, why didn't he have X?

Governments are doing it. We're voting for idiots who, and by the way, I'm not putting that on one side or the other. We're voting for idiots who are talking about symptoms, not talking about problems. Because, and here's the thing, dealing with problems is painful. Dealing with problems is painful. You have this gut problem, you've always had this gut problem, and you don't know what it is. So you went to the doctor, and the doctor gave you some pills, and you know what?

Skot Waldron (42:52.431)

respond.

Dov Baron (43:09.069)

It eased off for a bit, but you can still feel all the discomfort and the swelling and you You know and you've got zits on your face now. So you get some cream another symptom And then you find out well, you know what? I gotta stop eating Whatever is mcdonald's But you live on mcdonald's Well, i'll suffer then Because i'm only going to deal with a symptom So i'll take more pills and i'll get more cream as opposed to the problem is your gut is inflamed Deal with the issue

No, well, no, I'd much rather do something else. Well, you could eat right and you could exercise. No, but I'd rather have Botox. Well, you could eat right and you could exercise. Yeah, but I'd rather have gastric bypass. OK, we're a symptom driven society. I'm not judging you for it, but I'm asking you to acknowledge it. That's it. Just acknowledge it.

Skot Waldron (43:46.102)

Yeah.

Skot Waldron (43:59.062)

Yes, acknowledge it. And it all stems from this idea of the emotional source code that you've been talking about. And when we get to the root of that stuff, it's where the gold is found and it takes effort to dig it out and it takes effort and it's dirty and it's messy. But when we find it, that's where it is. That's where it is.

Dov Baron (44:04.772)

Exactly.

Dov Baron (44:17.421)

It's diamonds, man. It's so beautiful. Like when I do that work around brands, it's fascinating. It's like, this, you think this is the brand? This is not the brand. I worked with a plumbing company. Plumbing, I was like so not excited. These people manufacture pipes. They're a national company, but I wasn't particularly excited about it. And then we got to the emotional source code of the organization and I said, you're not in the plumbing business. And we got to what the emotional source code is and they were like the...

Skot Waldron (44:26.796)

Mm-hmm.

Dov Baron (44:45.557)

founder of the company was leaving to let partners take over was like, oh my God, I'm staying because he'd gotten to what drove him to start the bloody business.

Skot Waldron (44:56.475)

Yes. That's gold. Dove. I mean, man, I wish we had four more hours. So next time we come on, you are going to be on, we're going to talk. We're going to talk about Jungian stuff. We're going to like, we're going to, we're going to go there because I want to go there. Um, this is, this is brilliant. This is. I love this so much. If you want, let's point all my people to your stuff.

Dov Baron (45:02.953)

Thank you.

Dov Baron (45:14.345)

Happy to do it.

Dov Baron (45:24.341)

Thank you.

Skot Waldron (45:25.758)

Where do they go?

Dov Baron (45:26.913)

So if you want to find me, obviously, just go to my name, which is Dov, D-O-V, Baron, B-A-R-O-N.com. That's my main website. I write for LinkedIn, and I write for Medium. You can find my articles on the Curious Leader on LinkedIn. You can find my articles every Tuesday on LinkedIn. They are more polymathic. So we talk about geopolitics. We talk about leadership. We talk about mental health, all those things. The last one I did was on mental health. The next one that's coming out is on

Audis Huxley's Brave New World, the book The Brave New World, and showing the parallels between where we are today. That's all there. And you can follow me and you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I know I'm crazy, but you can write to me, dov at Dov Baron. Yes, that is actually my email, dov at Dov Baron. And I'll tell you why. Information is worth the hole in the donut. Transformation only comes from the application of the information.

So here's what I want you to do. I have a podcast, you can find my podcast on the usual places you find podcasts, but I know what it takes. It takes a lot of bloody work, far more than you can possibly imagine, but it's a stupid system because it's a one-way system. So Scott's here putting out all his time and this effort and finding guests for you and researching and then all the post-production. There's a lot goes into this.

And you probably don't even, you'd probably enjoy it and appreciate it, but you never let him know. You never did a review, you never rated it on Apple. You never did any of those things. You never shared it with your friends. You hoard the information and you just walk around thinking, oh, I'm looking forward to the next episode. That's great. But here's what I want you to do. I want you to go onto Apple or wherever it is you listen to the podcast, rate, review, subscribe to the show and share it with your friends, share the knowledge.

And now what I want you to do on top of that is I want you to write to me, david, davidbarron.com. And I want you to write to Scott and I want you to tell us what you got out of this episode. And more importantly, what are you going to do with it? Like, I want to know if it's changing your life to hear this, but I want to know how is it changing your life because you're applying it. This is what matters. If I can, if you, if I can serve you, I'm here to serve you and you might go, well, I'm not a world leader. Okay.

Dov Baron (47:51.861)

There are other people I help too. Reach out to me. If I can't serve you, I'll be the first to tell you I can't serve you. But if I can help you, I will do that. But I want you to acknowledge and validate the work that Scott puts into doing this. So please rate, review, subscribe to the show and share it with your friends.

Skot Waldron (48:09.102)

Best call to action ever. Ever. Mostly because I didn't give it. So, that's brilliant, man. Thank you so much. And I agree. Application leads to transformation. Information, inspiration is great. Application is what leads to the transformation. I'm so grateful. I echo your sentiments there 100%. You have been a gift for all of us today. What you've said has been a gift.

I hope that people took something from this. There's just the micro, it's just the micro aha. I just want something out of that. But I'm grateful again for you and bless you on all your stuff. I think that you've got a lot of people out there yearning to know what you know. And I think that that's all you gotta do. Giving you a platform to do that has been my honor and good luck out there.

Dov Baron (48:50.773)

Thank you, sir.

Dov Baron (49:03.401)

Well, I'm very grateful for you giving me that platform. It's a pleasure and honor to serve you and your audience, Scott. Thank you for the invitation. I'm sincerely grateful. Stay curious.