Unlocking Why Leadership Agility Is A Must With Matthew Lampe

* Website 

Skot Waldron (01:04.45)
All right, Matt, here we go, man. I’ve been waiting for this.

Matt Lampe (01:08.789)
Looking forward to it. Should be a good conversation.

Skot Waldron (01:10.798)
Yeah, for sure. um, you know, we met through a similar network we belong to and people recommended you. And when people recommend somebody, I just see where the universe takes us because, Hey, if you’re that famous, then I definitely need to talk to this guy.

Matt Lampe (01:33.297)
I will kind words, kind words and to those that recommend, I appreciate that. That’s one of the best compliments that somebody can get is to be recommended. And so any opportunity to get to talk with others, especially in that community or any community, get to know them a little bit more. That’s start of a good day.

Skot Waldron (01:53.418)
It is man. is. right. So organize, organizational psychology nerd dumb is where we are right now. Is that, I just made up that word. that cool? Okay. Okay. Let’s talk about it. give us, give us the scoop on you. Like why should even listen to you right now.

Matt Lampe (02:04.991)
Fantastic word, yes. Yeah, that works.

Well, that’s a good question. You know, I. The work that I do so I specialize in guiding change and development within organizations, drawing on a foundation. So I have a master’s in organizational behavior and a doctorate in organization development, a doctorate of psychology and organization development, really focusing on human systems in the workplace. So. Removing all that technical jargon aside the intention, the desire, the education, being able to bring that in, it’s really just to make work better. And we spend so much of our day, so much of our time working. And if we can make that space just a little bit more enjoyable, a little bit easier, why not? know, we’re dedicating this much of our time of our life to that. And so if there’s an opportunity to make things a little bit more enjoyable, that’s what I like to do. You my work really just centers on helping people.

People that’s in with our network, People Forward Network. There’s a lot of technical stuff that can go on within industrial and organizational psychology has two sides. The industrial side, very technical, very quantitative, analytical stats. It’s great. The organizational side, the people side, how do teams operate? And where I like to come in, where I like to focus a lot of mine is how are teams, how are individuals navigating chaos, navigating that complexity? And if I can bring a little bit more…

of clarity, a little bit of intention, a little bit of agility. You know, if it can contribute to making the workday or the work experience a little bit better, that’s what I want to do. And so whether that’s through internal change efforts or translating behavior science, academic research into practical everyday applications, let’s do it. Let’s give it a shot. Let’s see what it looks like and.

Learn from there, adapt from there, and keep pushing forward.

Skot Waldron (04:17.134)
So what’s your, I don’t know, what was your like, your thing? Like when you’re going through all your programs, getting your doctorate and doing all the other things, what was your like, like your area of study, your thing that you were so interested in that it was like, this is my jam. I’m gonna spend 20,000 years of my life doing this. What was it?

Matt Lampe (04:40.061)
Interesting question because I sort of stumbled into that. So when I started my grad program, one of the first classes right out the gate was a leadership development class and absolutely enjoyed it. And I said, well, I’ve spent a decade plus working in financial services industry and there’s a lot of opportunity to really enhance how leadership development happens, how leaders perform, how leaders lead. You know, there’s a key distinction between a manager and a leader and being able to lean into that and offer development support and guiding that that was fantastic. Well, but as I continued through my program, other courses really started to catch my attention and you start to see how to look at something alone, but within its whole system is really doing a disservice to that one niche area. It’s the system, it’s all interconnected. so leadership impacts, culture impacts how you engage your employees, how you train your employees, how you measure different components. all it all interconnects. And so as I progress through my programs and it got to the point where they say, OK, you’re going to have to do this dissertation, this big research project. And for anyone out there who’s done a dissertation, they know that the phrase research project is sort of an understatement for for the amount of work that it can take. But so I started down this dissertation path and I my advisor had a fantastic way of looking at it.

Start as like a funnel. You’ve got two or three big buckets of things that generally interest you and start refining those down. And as you go down those little rabbit holes and you start to see a little bit more, you start to connect those pieces. When you hit a point that you say, well, now I have a question that hasn’t been answered. What does this part mean or what does this part look like? That’s when you start to can hone in and find what your, what your focus will be. And for me, I kept going through it. And while I was going through this, this was right at the start of COVID.

And I was working full time as a manager, seeing it and living it in my own experience, but also seeing and hearing it in research, in news reports. Heck, we all probably can remember. It was a very uncertain time. Things were changing from one day to the next and not small changes. were big. Go from working in the office to working from home. You had the great resignation, quiet quitting, all these trending terms that were popping around, but all that centered around something’s changing in the workplace.

And whether it was voluntary change or voluntold change, things were disrupted. And so I kept looking at it going, well, how are managers, how are leaders leading through this? How are they navigating this uncertainty, this chaos that’s changing from Friday afternoon when you leave the office to Monday morning, it’s a whole new set of mandates or guidelines or whatever. How are they leading through that? And so that sort of became the guiding question.

I started doing the research. did a qualitative narrative inquiry, which is, was doing a bunch of interviews with different leaders across different industries, really wanting to understand in base, in the most basic terms, how are you doing it? Because if we can learn from what you’re doing, maybe there’s things that others can do. And if we can start to piece together what different people are doing, can we, can we sort of get a little bit better of an idea of a playbook when there’s no playbook for what’s happening?

So go through all of that and I end up at the end with this, with this set of, of data, this research and I’m going, there’s something here and I don’t quite know what to call it. It’s not transformational leadership. It’s not situational awareness. It’s not this, it’s not that. And interestingly enough, I ended up right as I was finishing that and putting the, trying to find out what that term was. I went to a conference and at that conference, I had the opportunity to speak with.

somebody who was actually who I had actually cited in my dissertation. I’m talking with him and I said, you this is kind of what I have and I don’t really quite know what it is. He looks at it and he says, you have agility. I said, well, what he says? Yeah, this this is agility in action. This is people doing this in their natural state. This is, you he says, did they have specific training around that? Did they have, you know resources that that guided them in that direction. Not to the best of my knowledge, no, and it didn’t come up in any of the conversations. He says, what you have here is a very raw, unfiltered version of what agility looks like in practice. And so that sort of became this this anchor point where that light bulb went off and I went, my gosh, OK, I totally see it now that we have a. In essence, a baseline of what this looks like without a lot of additional resources and support and development programs around it, what could it look like? What could that possibility, what could that potential be if we did start to introduce some of those pieces? So through stumbling through things, I ended up focused on agility and the key factors that enable it. And agility can come in many different forms. And there’s some brilliant researchers out there who look at, like Susan David looks at emotional agility.

There’s different niches within agility that really are well studied, well explored, and then you take some of those resources and you start bringing these things together. Again, going back to that comment about looking at stuff in a system versus in a silo or as a singular. When you start bringing all those components together, you can start to see what does agility look like in practice and how can we use that in the workplace to again make things a little bit better.

Skot Waldron (10:38.016)
Okay. You talk about, I mean, I know what agility means kind of, right? Like it’s just your ability to, to pivot, to kind of be adaptable certain situations and whatnot. but you went super, how do you go super deep on that? Like, it’s like, if you talk to a leader about being agile, you’re like, okay. Like, all right, I’ll just work on that. I mean, what does that look like in action? Cause I get it as a concept.

But when you talk about really putting it into action and not just saying the thing, but doing the thing, what’s that look like?

Matt Lampe (11:19.093)
Agility in action isn’t necessarily about moving fast. It’s about shifting wisely. It’s the behavior capacity to notice when something has changed or is changing. It’s the ability to assess what that change means and then to choose a response versus a reaction, a response that’s intentional, not necessarily automatic. So in behavioral terms, this relates closely to cognitive flexibility, which is the ability to shift between

mental frameworks as new data or new context emerges. It’s the kind of adjustment that’s rooted in executive function and can show up in subtle ways, not necessarily flashy ways.

One of the good example from a colleague was he was talking about how do we develop agility or how do we develop leaders that are more agile? And he he shared a brilliant metaphor about baseball and baseball players. Now, anytime you bring sports into the conversation, my attention level increases that much more. I’m like, you got me on baseball. Let’s let’s let’s go. Let’s connect it. So he was talking about when you have a hitter and you’re trying to to work with them on their on their hitting.

You’ve got two different players that you’re coaching or that you’re developing. One of them you give fastball after fastball after fastball after fastball. You’ll 100 of those or how many of those and then you switch over and you do 100 curveball curveball curveball slider slider slider, etc. etc. Right. They learn how to hit those pitches. Cool. You’re developing their skill. But then you have the other player and the pitches that they’re thrown fastball curveball change up slider fastball change up.

It’s it’s random. Not only are they learning how to hit the pitch, they’re learning how to read the situation and adjust and assess what’s going on and what what’s required in that moment. Now, when that colleague shared that that analogy, I again, you bring baseball into the equation and I’m hooked. So not only did I really enjoy that and grasp onto it, I started to see there’s a piece that’s still somewhat missing. And I’ve referred to that in different things as the pause.

Matt Lampe (13:34.453)
So when you watch a baseball game, know, sixth, seventh inning, whatever it is, and a new pitcher comes in, watch how many times that batter takes the first pitch from that new pitcher. It can be a strike, it can be a strike right down the middle of the plate, but they’re not, they’re typically not gonna swing. And why is that? It’s not that they don’t know how to hit whatever pitch that pitcher’s coming for. They may have a great record against that pitcher, but they’re still gonna typically wait and take that first pitch because they’re assessing, they’re pausing their behavior, they’re pausing their action to assess what’s actually going on in this moment, what’s in this context, and then how do I respond accordingly? So when you go from, okay, I can work on agility, cool, that’s good, that’s a start. I’m not gonna advocate, well, there’s a wrong way or an incomplete way. I’m gonna say any little bit of effort that you put toward it has the potential to increase your ability, whether it’s as a leader, an individual contributor, to perform to enhance or empower a different possibility. You have that pause, that agility where it’s not necessarily reacting fast, it’s responding intentionally. And when you start to develop that behavior, when you start to develop that mindset, where you can look at a situation and say, I don’t have all the answers right now, but in the moment, this is what’s needed. So here’s what we’re going to do. And we’re going to reevaluate.

That’s what it looks like in practice. And that’s where that benefit starts to come in. Going back to some of the conversations from the interviews during the pandemic, what did it look like? Sometimes it was leaders saying, you know what? I don’t know what’s needed right now. But what I do know is that we have to keep the doors open because maybe that’s an essential worker or frontline service that they are still in person, right? You have to have so many people to even keep the doors open.

And so your target, your focus is less on production for the moment and more about what does it mean to take care of my people in this critical two, three, four weeks to make sure that we can keep the doors open. Something like that. That’s just one example where when you start to integrate that agility from a nice to have to a must have or to a critical need, you can start to see how this can ripple effect and impact

Matt Lampe (16:01.289)
larger teams, your organization, and really have a positive opportunity to do some good.

Skot Waldron (16:09.432)
Yeah, I mean, you’re, you’re talking about, I’ve been thinking is, you know, sometimes they don’t have time to pause. mean, I say that, I mean, I guess you always have time to pause. but you know, you have times during COVID when they’re like, the government’s like, Nope, everybody shut your doors kind of thing. And you’ll have Matt, some smaller organizations, maybe you can adapt quicker. Some organizations that were remote already. You can adapt quicker. Some organizations that were like.

All in person, a hundred percent or 95 % in person. And then all of a sudden you’ve got to logistically figure out how to get people outside the firewall and make sure they can get access to things. got an IT issue and like, there were some fast moving pieces that had to be figured out like right then. Um, when time feels scarce, when things are so immediate for a leader, I mean, how do you actually be agile in those moments. By the way, you’re talking about it, taking the time to pause, taking the time to reflect. How do you develop that capacity?

Sure, and I love that question because to clarify on the pause, the pause isn’t a delay of behavior or a delay of action. It’s taking whatever that moment or moments might be to assess.

What what is needed right now and and almost in a way saying and what’s not needed to be focused on right now? Let’s put that off the side. So The capacity to pause it’s a trained behavior. It’s not passive and it’s not always intuitive You know you there are moments where leaders do need to act quickly to demonstrate that competency or that control But the pause is where that intentionality piece comes in. So instead of sporadic or reaction to something you’re taking that moment short moment, whatever the situation allows to kind of say, OK, hold on, wait a minute, time out. Let me take a step back. What’s going on? What do we need to do? So in that example of that you shared, you these large companies that had to suddenly go remote and they’re having to figure out firewalls and IT and all this stuff. In the moment, that pause is saying, look, we can’t have people in close proximity, so our response has to be they’re working from home. We need to get the basics, the fundamentals, the necessity set up the firewall security, the access. But I bet 10 bucks, Skot, that one of the thoughts that came across that didn’t come across their minds when it comes to responses and behaviors was, and we also need to make sure the dress code is enforced. Now, that’s an extreme example, but my point is simply that that pause is saying, look, we have our normal cadence of what happens where we just go in and do our daily work. We all know the rules. We all know the process.

But when something disrupts that or something changes that, whether it’s a small change or, or a chaotic disruption, the ability to step back and go, a minute. Okay. What’s going on here? What do we need right here in this moment? And sometimes what’s needed in that moment is. You know, something large, like we need to get it. Set up across hundreds of computers around town, you know, whatever it might be. Other times that that pause might be going, okay, Skot is a high performer.

Matt Lampe (19:36.563)
He went from high performance to bottom of the barrel in about two weeks. The pause is going, what? OK, time out. What’s going on? Versus coming in saying, Skot, you’re not holding your numbers. And again, it’s that shift in that behavior that brings in the intentionality around how you respond versus how you react.

One of the other things that kind of draws from that pause is there’s research in acceptance of commitment therapy that shows that that sort of present moment awareness can support better long-term outcomes in both decision-making and then, again, the well-being of people. So whether it’s of yourself as that individual, as that leader, whether it’s of your team or your organization the ability to have that present moment awareness that says what’s needed right now in this moment. Now that’s gonna change in two weeks, three weeks, whatever it might be. So the decisions that we make right now as we act with a little bit more agility don’t necessarily have to be decisions that are long term, that are set in permanent ink going forward. They can be something that says, right now in this chaos, in this disruption, in this moment when we’ve got.

X Y & Z going on what’s needed right now in this present moment? That’s what that pause is and it doesn’t it’s not a delay of behavior or a delay of Reaction, it’s the intentionality of response

Skot Waldron (21:04.556)
Hmm. I often talk about people moving from critique to curiosity. It’s a lot, believe, I don’t know what it is, but I believe that it’s a lot easier to just point the blame and to call out the thing that’s going on as opposed to reflecting and being curious and kind of thinking about a question, thinking about other options and other things. What is that?

Like, have you found that familiar? mean, have you found that out there? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Like, what is it?

Matt Lampe (21:43.317)
I absolutely agree. I think that that curiosity ties into that. That saying present in the moment, you know, it’s very easy to say, well, we we have to do X because of this or we didn’t do that because and finding the blame pointing the finger elsewhere. But when you when you’re able to. To instead approach with a little bit of curious to throw in a Ted Lasso line, because I’m rewatching that series right now. Be curious, not judgmental.

And so when you have a situation, it’s easy to judge it and say, well, because Skot did this, now we have or whatever it might be. But what would it look like if instead we approach a little bit of curiosity and we say. What does this OK, regardless of what has happened? We want to take that in consideration, of course, but where do we go from here? What is that in this moment right now? Look like an and that’s all that curiosity piece that you’re just talking about. That is that agility component. That’s the factor that enables agility to happen.

So agility isn’t the pause. The pause is the key factor that enables that agility in that behavior, the ability to say, here’s how we can continue to move forward. Here’s how we can adjust in that moment. can pivot because we’ve taken that moment to step back and say, wait a minute, let’s approach with some curiosity. Let’s approach with some humility and say, what’s going on presently in this moment? And how do we want to move forward with this information that we now know?

Skot Waldron (23:09.58)
Okay. So you’re, you’re, you’re saying that reactionary, accidental, unintentional behavior leads to more critique, more blame, more intentional, more intentional kind of that response as opposed to react behavior leads to more questioning that because that’s that’s the response implies the pause, right? see what I’m saying? I mean, follow me there on two different branches. I guess I’m, I’m going to different level. I’m just combining the idea of what you said there.

Matt Lampe (23:50.131)
Yeah, yeah, and I would I would say mostly accurate the second part of that. Yep, that you’re you’re hitting the nail on the head there. The first part of that that what you were saying there I would I would say sometimes that’s that’s what’s going on. You know the the chaotic or the the random reaction isn’t necessarily wrong. You know, there’s that that saying a broken clock is still right twice a day. You can have random reactions.

To to something and it may be The good a good behavior a good response Doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to be causation isn’t cause out or correlation isn’t causality there However that goes It’s the second it’s that second half of what you’re saying that that’s really where that focus that I that I that I center a lot of the work around is what does it look like when we have that intentionality around it? When we have more of the response versus the reaction. Because the reaction is also allowing, that’s enabling parts of ourselves to take control or be in control sort of automatically. And that can be a good thing, it can be a little bit better when there is a little bit more intentionality around it, when it’s a response, not a reaction when you get that email from somebody that just, it’s nails on a chalkboard, and the first thing you wanna do is hit respond and just type away something. And instead of hitting send, right before you hit send, you kind of pause and you go, now wait a minute. Is this really going to further what we’re trying to do? Or is there a better way to say this? so, know, maybe it’s, save that in your draft folder, and tomorrow morning after you’ve had your cup of coffee and you’re starting the day off, reread the email. See if it still makes sense.

That’s where your behavior can be more of a response to the scenario, the situation, the context, versus a reaction to something that may not land as intended. know, I think about leaders are constantly navigating pressure from different systems, from different technologies, timelines, emotions, both their own and those around them. so grounding that doesn’t mean ignoring that noise or ignoring that, that, that chaos or that challenge. It’s, it’s learning how to hear what matters within it. And then it’s the ability to say centered.

It’s the ability to stay centered and purpose guided even when that urgency tries to pull us somewhere else.

Skot Waldron (26:33.883)
Yeah, fine. Well, let me, let me ask you this before, before I make that statement. What, what do you think, or what do you find or what do you see, as to why leaders don’t do this very well? Like what is it that holds them back from being that.

I guess that intentional pause leader that responds instead of reacts like what holds leaders back you think mostly.

Matt Lampe (27:13.535)
I’d contend that it’s probably not an intentional avoidance of the behaviors. It’s that the opportunity, the development, the knowledge around this has yet to be fully dispersed, fully ingrained into what it looks like to develop ourselves professionally, develop our skills, develop whether it’s as a leader or an individual contributor, even outside of the workplace.

When look at ourselves as in our individual lives, what does it look like to have a little bit more of that intentionality around it? I don’t think that it’s something that people are in are explicitly avoiding. No, I don’t want that. I’m not going to go down that route. It’s that the. The research is. So often very incredible, very insightful knowledge and research is done, but it sits on academic shelves or it sits behind paywalls.

You know, to be able to get this article into the hands of people who can bring this to fruition, there’s hurdles, there’s a gap. And so I would actually contend that that’s probably more of what limits its potential, that it’s not an avoidance of it, it’s that we’re still working to get this out to the masses, to be able to say, here’s what this looks like, and here’s how we can do this even better.

And again, going back to what I saw in my research is people are already doing it to some extent, which is really encouraging. When there’s already signs and signals of these types of behaviors happening, how do we amplify that? How do we spread that message? Here’s what’s going well, and here’s what that has translated to. And I think there’s also the other piece that I think contributes to it is there’s a shift in how organizations what organizations prioritize and how they operate and how they perform. 30, 40, 50 years ago, was, know, the shareholder is always right. The customer is always right. And I think that there’s more of a, and so that contributes to the idea that, I don’t need all these extra things. I don’t need to pause and respond. I just need, I know the answer is whatever makes the customer happy. When you start to take a step back and go, well, wait a minute, is that really what is allowing us to do better as an organization, to be here for the long term. Because if we treat our customer well, but it comes to the expense of our employee and our employee is not here, now all of sudden we have turnover. Turnover means higher costs. Higher cost means less ability to grow long-term and be sustainable. You see this ripple effect, this downstream effect as things happen. And so that reevaluation that’s taking that step back and going, wait a minute.

What can we do a little bit differently? The companies that have been around for a long time and are the stable, calm presence in that chaos when that water is thrashing all over, what are they doing? And I don’t know if they are, I don’t know to what extent they may be practicing agility in different forms, organizational agility, leadership learning. But what I would contend is that shift in their priority and how they choose to respond and how they choose to behave has led to greater potential. And so going back to your question, I don’t think it’s something that people are actively avoiding. I think that it’s an opportunity for us to get that out there. Here’s how we can make this a little bit better.

Skot Waldron (30:56.78)
I almost think part of it has to do with how easy it is to not be intentional. It’s really easy to just react to everything. It’s really easy to just.

Matt Lampe (31:12.297)
Well, and like you said earlier, the blame at someone else. It’s easy to do that. It can be.

Skot Waldron (31:15.916)
Yeah. Well, I don’t have to take responsibility. I don’t have to be, hold myself accountable or be uncomfortable. I think that’s the word too, is it’s discomfort. When I have to think pause, whatever it’s uncomfortable and we don’t like to be uncomfortable. And so it’s really easy and comfortable to just say, do whatever react. And I mean,

It’s kind of the way it is. And I think it’s also the way we perceive ourselves and our environments. mean, back to what you were saying too. we don’t, you know, maybe it’s just that we’re exposed to it enough. think a good measure of that also too, is how we behave at home. You reference something about at home too, like how, quick, how agile are we at home? You know, to things that happen with young kids that are in a very egocentric stage of their lives, And we have to, as adults, learn to be agile in that environment. Or we’re living with a partner of some kind, and it’s like we have to learn to live with somebody else in that environment. And I think at home is different than at work, but we can still practice a lot there, just as much as we can anywhere else.

Matt Lampe (32:41.695)
Yeah. And I love what you talked about there with that discomfort. So true. To pause is to be uncomfortable. We don’t like that. We avoid that. And that I think is one of the challenges with agility development or skill development is acknowledging that that pause can be uncomfortable. And that’s not a bad thing. From a behavioral science lens,

It’s it’s a grounding that can be supported by psychological safety. So when you look at your workplace, does your workplace have that psychological safety factor that allows you to or provides a space where you can show up with that discomfort, where you can practice that little bit of. Unease that pause that says, you know. We’re going to try something here, and if we get it wrong. It’s we’re not. It’s not the end of it.

You know, we can still move forward. And being able to engage in that regular meaning-making practice, asking questions like,

Skot Waldron (34:00.65)
gotcha. Okay. I’m here. I’m back. Okay. It was recording everything you said. So I mean, that’s what it should have been doing.

Matt Lampe (34:02.065)
OK. Sorry about that.

Awesome. I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know where I where it dropped off, but really kind of bring that to a close. That pause, that discomfort in the pause. When you have an organization, when your organization has that psychological, psychological safety component as part of that culture where you can be a little bit uncomfortable, where you can take that pause without the fear or the worry that if we did.

If we do this wrong, it’s going to cost me my job. When you have that ability to say, let’s practice this, let’s try this, we’re OK with not getting it right. Well, now we’ve introduced a whole new level. That’s organizational agility. But how it can be a little bit cyclical and create that space for that pause, which then enables the ability for yourself to have that a little bit more agility in your behavior.

Skot Waldron (35:07.214)
Good stuff, man. So you’ve got this show, the Science for Work podcast. Do you talk about this kind of nerdy stuff on there? Is that what you do? I mean, science, work, I kind of assume you do, but.

Matt Lampe (35:21.843)
Yeah, absolutely. do. So I’ve, I am the host of the science for work podcast. I’ve been, working with the organization for a couple of years now, started with writing articles and then translated into starting up the podcast for them. The organization has been around for a number of years and the intention really behind it is to take. Insights from IO psychology and HR management and translate it into practical, approachable language.

So, that we can make work better. Let’s take these insights, this wonderful, brilliant academic research that is done, and let’s bring it to the masses. Let’s bring it in a way that’s easy to understand, that’s practical, that’s very much the TLDR version. Here’s all this research and here’s what it looks like or here’s what it means. So as the host of the podcast, it’s an honor to be the host for the show, we get to talk with individuals around the world who are experts in different domains within IO psychology, HR management. so whether we’re looking at DEI, allyship, engagement, turnover, retention, workplace, psychological safety, all of these different components to be able to have those conversations, I get to be a part of that. And then we publish those out and the intention again is to really just get that message out there, get this work out there because it has so much potential to make work better.

Skot Waldron (36:53.838)
Yeah, I’ve heard a lot recently, just listening to different people talk about, and I didn’t realize this necessarily, but how locked up some of that research is, and it’s behind those paywalls and behind like getting access to them hasn’t, they haven’t made it as easy. So there’s a lot of. For releasing it for getting it out to the public, making it readily available. So I hope that fight continues because I think there’s a lot of opportunity there. Thanks for spreading your wisdom, man. Thanks for, you know,

Matt Lampe (37:22.357)
Thank you.

Skot Waldron (37:23.34)
host in the show and building that thing up. that’s really cool. love it. And if people want to talk to you a little bit more, they want to nerd out on this stuff with you and hang out and just talk and, get some insights from you. What, what did they do?

Matt Lampe (37:38.143)
The best way to get a hold of me is through LinkedIn. So I’m relatively active there. Would love to engage in any kind of conversations. And if there’s people that want to listen to the show, we’re on all the major platforms, Spotify, Apple, iHeart. Download the episodes, listen to them, write in your questions. If you’ve got questions, put it in the comment. I’ll respond to them. I’m the one that gets to see all those come through. And I love to engage in these kinds of conversations.

Reach out to me through LinkedIn and I would be happy to have a conversation.

Skot Waldron (38:11.886)
Super cool, man. love it. Thanks for having the conversation with me.

Matt Lampe (38:15.935)
Thanks, Skot. It’s been a pleasure.