Skot Waldron:
Maria, it's so good to see you, and thanks for jumping on to this listener feedback coaching experience. Appreciate it.
Maria Uribe:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. This is great.
SKOT WALDRON:
Give us a quick introduction of who you are, where you're from.
MARIA URIBE:
My name is Maria Uribe. I am a resident of Gwinnett County, Georgia. I'm super-involved in the community, love living here. As part of my professional career, I've really developed within the nonprofit sector. Started here with the local organization, JA of Georgia, and I've recently transitioned to JA USA, which is kind of the umbrella that we're under. I'm on the development team for JA USA on the donor relations side.
SKOT WALDRON:
Super cool. As a born and bred Gwinnettian, Amen. Awesome. Gwinnett is awesome.
MARIA URIBE:
Gwinnett is great.
SKOT WALDRON:
I moved away for a while, came back. I probably won't leave again. It's fantastic being here. I appreciate the work you're doing in our local community as well and all the impact that you're making over at JA. It's really, really awesome stuff. I've experienced it, my daughter's experienced it in middle school and it's been some really great stuff, so I appreciate you. Let's get on to the question. What is the question you have today that I can help you with?
MARIA URIBE:
Like many organizations with JA, we have a wide array of talent, and that talent comes from different generations. As newer generations are entering the workforces, some are leaving. I think my question is around, how do we best address intergenerational communication in the workplace?
SKOT WALDRON:
You picked a small one.
MARIA URIBE:
I did, yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
You picked this one that-
MARIA URIBE:
It's sort of small.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah, let's start small. This is super-relevant. This is the first time that we know of in our society. I don't know if it's because we haven't been tracking it for thousands of years, that we know of, that we have five generations in the workforce. That's big. There's a lot of different personalities and a lot of different things that go into that. We have to understand, first of all, that each generation is made up of different types of thinking because of their experiences. Let's just say, what are some of the experiences you've lived through in your lifetime?
MARIA URIBE:
Great question. Communication in general, I think written communication especially, things get lost in translation or your tone isn't perceived as it would be when you're in person. I'm fully remote now, and so that I think adds to the sometimes convolutedness that can come with communication. An example here would be innovation. I think sometimes as younger folks we come in, maybe we're tech savvy differently. I think we have this ability to come in and maybe automate processes or make things more efficient in our mind is better. That's not always where maybe someone that's a little bit more experienced or has been in that position for a while and in a process that's been working for them, it's not always well-received. I'm here to talk to you about strategies to better maybe position innovative ideas in a situation like that.
SKOT WALDRON:
If you think about the experiences that you've lived through, so one is tech. In the digital age now, you said tech savvy, you've used the word tech savvy.
MARIA URIBE:
I did, yeah.
SKOT WALDRON:
What generation do you fall into? Here, let me pull up something really quick. This is from a multi-generational presentation that I do. I'm leading a multi-generational workforce. Where do you fall on this, if you can see my screen?
MARIA URIBE:
I can totally see your screen. I love this. I am a millennial.
SKOT WALDRON:
A millennial, so we say they're driven but entitled. That's the whole stigma around what it is. Now, the millennial generation was really that first generation to grow up with tech.
MARIA URIBE:
That's right.
SKOT WALDRON:
They become more tech savvy. They're one of the most tech savvy generations, but they're also starting to move into leadership positions and management positions and starting to shape organizations in how people are led. When you get into the Gen Xers, which were really the bridge, I'm a Gen Xer, we were the bridge from the industrial into the digital. We were born without digital, but then we adopted digital as it came on. We were learning how to use digital. Millennials, that's been there since the beginning and now they're shaping how we use digital. We were learning how to use digital. Millennials are shaping how we use digital, and there's a big difference.
SKOT WALDRON:
Baby boomers, silent generation, not very tech savvy. I mean, how many of you are now your family IT person? It's like every time you go over your family's email is broken. It's kind of that idea. When we think about those things and what shaped that mentally as far as the way our culture is adapted to tech, it's really interesting. When you get to Gen Z, they're more what we call tech reliant. They have a hard time functioning without tech. I think a lot of us are starting to get there a little bit. Gen Z, I mean they were born with an extra appendage. It was like a phone that they were born with.
SKOT WALDRON:
You're thinking about this and how do you shape this and how do we deliver these things in a way that gets everybody on board? Because we all have something to bring to the table. Let's go back to what you said. You said we can use tech well in our generation. We can do things that help bring in new processes and things that maybe rock the boat a little bit of the traditional way of doing things, and sometimes that's not really well-received. I'm going to show you a picture really quick. Tell me what you see.
MARIA URIBE:
I see a shoemaker, maybe with his apprentice.
SKOT WALDRON:
Old guy, shoemaker. Young guy, apprentice?
MARIA URIBE:
Yes.
SKOT WALDRON:
That is the traditional way we look at this picture. What if this kid is the shoemaker and this guy is the apprentice? Do you ever think about that?
MARIA URIBE:
No. Not, if I'm being honest, just by looking at this photo. You're right, it's a paradigm shift.
SKOT WALDRON:
What if the master isn't even in this room and he said, "Hey, you two, I need you to create a new way to fix these shoes because times are changing. Some things are happening here. Hey, you, older guy, you bring a lot to the table because you know how we've built shoes for the last however many decades. Young guy, you don't really know those things, but you maybe have some out of the box ways of thinking about this that could maybe shape the way that we innovate our shoe industry. I want you guys to think together and come together and bring those things together in how we can shape this whole new shoe industry." Now, they, together, are having to work as a team to come up with a new solution.
MARIA URIBE:
That's great. I think one of my biggest fears, if I'm being honest here, is bringing forth a new solution. We start it, but then everyone reverts back to their old ways of doing things. Because now we're in this limbo where we're half doing something new but half not. That is definitely one of my bigger fears when I think through innovative processes or changes, particularly in my role now. I think when I first started, I was so much more invigorated, I was so new. I wanted to implement so much change.
MARIA URIBE:
Where now, months into this role, I find myself stopping when I have some of those ideas and saying, "Wait, how is that going to be received? How can you communicate that in a way where people hear it and are bought in and see the benefit for them and the work that they do?" Frankly, I wasn't stopping as often as I am now in my previous role. Because again, I was more in a leadership role at that point. I was leading some of that change. Right now, I'm having to adjust to the follow. What I'm hearing from you, which is really interesting is, even in that follow, there are opportunities to perhaps lead or to perhaps bring others along.
SKOT WALDRON:
For sure. The typical way we used to look at things in the industrial age was, we have respect based on positional power. We've been in this position for a long time. You immediately come in and you immediately respect that person because of the job title that they have. Now, if we go back to the generational thing here, the silent generation, baby boomers, they respected their boss because of their title and because they've been there for a while. Because they've earned that respect by being in the industry and working their way up the ladder. This is the traditional way of thinking. Gen Xers started to kick against that a little bit because of how skeptical they were anyway with the things they grew up with. Berlin Wall and respect for authority and all those types of things, start to kick against that.
SKOT WALDRON:
They started to say, "You know what? I am going to be pretty skeptical of you because I don't know. Why should I trust you? Just because you're this, that authority piece? Doesn't resonate with me. You got to earn my respect." Then that's trickled down through the millennials and the Gen Zers. It's, "Yeah? So what? You've got a VP title? Okay. That's cool, I respect it, but it doesn't mean you directly have influence with me just because of that title." That's another generational gap that is happening.
SKOT WALDRON:
We have to understand and have empathy as younger individuals, later Gen Xers, millennials, Gen Zers, that they almost demand that respect because of positional power and title, and the younger generations don't see it that way. There's a little bit of this that happens. As long as we have a little bit more empathy and understanding about where we each come from, then it'll help that a little bit more. We'll read into that a little bit more and understand a little bit more. I want to go back to another thing you said where you said, some ideas may not be adapted as easily. You may bring an idea to the table. I'm going to flip over to something really quick. This is...
MARIA URIBE:
And I'd like to add a little bit to that as well.
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead while I look into this.
MARIA URIBE:
Because I think that as millennials and Gen Z, I have family that's younger. I have nieces and a nephew. I do think that we're more accustomed to refinement and going through projects in a way that's like, "Here's what I have, give me feedback. I'll adjust. Here's what I have, give me feedback. I'll adjust." That kind of almost like the scientific method of always trying to refine and not having a final product. Where I've found that in my role now, it really isn't that. It really is like, "Hey, give me the project once it's done. I don't need to see the multiple iterations. I just need to see it once it's done." Which has been a big adjustment for me because all throughout school and college, all the group projects that I ever did were us having different people have feedback into that project to have this greater awesome project.
MARIA URIBE:
Now what I'm finding is, again, the responsibility is a little bit more on the role that I currently hold. There isn't that same level of circle of feedback and refinement that I'm so accustomed to. That's definitely been a little bit of an adjustment for me. As I was seeing your chart, I was like, "Oh, well maybe this is related here because of how people perceive." If I'm in a vice president position, for example, and I have someone that I've been trusted with a project, really I just need to give it the okay at the end. That's how I was reading your chart somewhat as I was thinking through that thought.
SKOT WALDRON:
That's good. Maybe in the traditional way of things it was like, "I'm the stamp of approval. I need you to go off and do all the work because that's what I did. I earned my seat where I am. I don't have to do that anymore. That's not my role. You go off do that, bring it back to me. I'll sign off on that." Kind of thing. Meanwhile, the younger generations are a bit more collaborative in maybe the way that they think about things and entrepreneurial. That whole mindset of try something, fail at it, break it, try some things. That also feeds into personality. There's some of us that are risk averse and some of us that are all about it, like it's totally fine. That's a really good observation, Maria. I like that thought a lot.
SKOT WALDRON:
I want to go into one more thing that is going to shape a little bit of this conversation and it really comes down to what we call Self Preservation. This, by the way, I'm showing you giant OS. It's a leadership program that we use to coach people. This has 50 plus tools on it. This is just one of them. It's called Self Preservation. You earlier said, so they're maybe not taken well when I present an idea. I may come in and innovate a process and maybe it's taken well, maybe it's not.
SKOT WALDRON:
What I would ask you, and let's run through this a little bit. Let's take one scenario. You've done something, you've innovated a process and you're showing it to somebody and it gets some kickback. There's some resistance there, which we call A Wall of Self Preservation, right here. You're trying to build a relationship and impact, but they have a wall up. I want you to ask yourself this question. This is a lesson and an exercise in empathy, a little bit. Let's think about, what do you think they're afraid of losing?
MARIA URIBE:
Comfort, time, and learning a new process. Skepticism.
SKOT WALDRON:
They're afraid of losing time. That's a good one. They're afraid of feeling uncomfortable. They're afraid of having to learn something new at a later age. Because as we get older, it's kind like, "Ah, I don't want to go back and learn that stuff all over again." It's kind of this, "I've been there. I don't need to do this over. That's what you're for. By you bringing this to the table, now I have to learn something new and I don't really want to do that, or I don't have time for that or it makes me uncomfortable." Is that right?
MARIA URIBE:
Yeah. I also think that for me it's been a little bit different because I feel that so much of this happens with trust as well when you bring forth a new innovative process. I think that part of me and me stopping myself when I have new ideas or I want to bring new ideas to the table is asking myself, "Have I built that trust with this person or this team being so new and being so fresh?" When I put myself in their shoes, I also often think, "Hey, maybe they..." Again, particularly in a hybrid setting or in a remote setting, it's hard to build that trusting culture because you're only really meeting with your team during designated times.
MARIA URIBE:
I think when I look at this, I think, "Well, maybe they just also don't fully trust me yet, or trust me as their colleague yet or as a professional yet." Maybe it's that afraid, maybe it's that sense of not only am I going to lose time, I'm also going to have to maybe adjust to a process that ultimately fails because this person doesn't know yet what we do, or maybe this person doesn't know yet the full process or what have you.
SKOT WALDRON:
When you think about them and their position that they're in, an older generation, they've worked their way up and they're established now in this role. Maybe not established, maybe it's a new role for them, but they've worked their way up, they've paid their dues. What do you think they're afraid of losing at this point?
MARIA URIBE:
That's a really hard question. I don't know. I feel that when you're in that role, and to your point, you've paid your dues, you've progressed. Particularly in nonprofit, where so many of us are doing it for the impact. You've seen so much impact throughout the longevity of your career. I don't know that there's a lot to lose, besides the feelings of discomfort. Or let's be frank, with the pandemic, we saw this. People don't like change. They just don't. They're change averse often, because it means shaking things up and you do lose things like time.
MARIA URIBE:
Perhaps the process becomes a little less efficient while you're working it out before it gets really efficient when you make that change. When I put myself in their shoes, again, I try to be very empathetic and think through those different components. I do definitely fall back on often on trust and whether I've earned that trust or haven't yet. That's why I'm talking to you today to learn all these communication strategies to help bridge some of that trust in that communication.
SKOT WALDRON:
Like I said, this is first a lesson in empathy and understanding so that we can learn to communicate more effectively and try to build that trust. Because as soon as we start to see people for who they are, they start to feel heard, valued, and understood and then that builds trust in the long term. Let's paint the picture this way. I have worked my way up the ladder, I've earned this position over time and paying my dues and doing my thing. Now, another person is coming in, rocking the boat a little bit with the process, trying to break the mold and innovate and do some things.
SKOT WALDRON:
Now, I have a wall up because I'm resistant. I'm afraid that what's going to happen. I've worked my way up. I'm feeling really proud about the things I've done in my career, now this person's coming and rocking the boat, kind of shaking things up a little bit. What else could you replace that with? I'm afraid of what?
MARIA URIBE:
Maybe of losing a little bit of the relevancy or the value I bring to the team.
SKOT WALDRON:
Amen. There you go. They've built their career off of something, this ideology, this thought process, this system. All of these blocks have been stacked and they're here. Now you're coming in going, "What if we don't need this many blocks, or what if we change these blocks and move these blocks over here?" They're like, "Whoa. Wait. I've built my whole career on these blocks. You don't need to mess with the blocks. The blocks are good." You're like, "Yeah, but there's a lot of blocks. We can not use as many blocks." They're like, "No. Leave the blocks alone. Just learn how I've built my business and my career off these blocks." There's something there. Losing that relevancy, thinking that, "All the things I've done in the past, maybe that wasn't the best way to do it." What's that take? To be able to say that, what does that take for a leader to be able to say that?
MARIA URIBE:
Man, I would think a lot of self-awareness and confidence and trust in your teammates.
SKOT WALDRON:
Vulnerability, humility to be able to say, "Oh." Humility just means teachable. If I'm humble, I'm teachable. For a humble leader to be teachable, to say, "Wow, maybe I'm not doing it the best way. Maybe there is room for this." It does take trust in order to do that. What do you think they're trying to hide?
MARIA URIBE:
I think not everyone is super-comfortable, particularly with going back to the specific example of tech. I just don't think everyone's super-comfortable with technology, where they are. When we bring forth tech ideas, or maybe they revert to their experience with technology, and technology has gone better over time, particularly systems that support in the workplace. They used to be quite clunky and the UX was so bad on those things and they were hard to navigate.
MARIA URIBE:
I do think older generations revert to their experience with that type of technology and don't realize where we are today and how far we've come with technology and the way that interfaces can really support your work and the efficiency of your work differently. I do think that at times it comes off as perhaps they're not very tech savvy. They revert to their past experiences with tech. That positions themselves against this wall maybe, that you have here.
SKOT WALDRON:
There you go. Also, they've built their career again on some level of competency and to get to that level and by introducing, like you said, this idea of tech and these things that they may not be as familiar with. They possibly look what? By not being able to grab all of this, what are they trying to hide a little bit there? You've kind of said it.
MARIA URIBE:
Maybe the inability to adapt to new tools and technology.
SKOT WALDRON:
Which causes them to maybe look incompetent. If they built that career level based on competency, and competency is a highly respected thing in our careers, looking incompetent or trying to hide the fact that I don't know how to do something when I'm at this level is something that we need to be aware of. What do you think they're trying to prove, and to whom?
MARIA URIBE:
Maybe trying to prove to themselves that they are who they say they are. I think often in the workplace when we have this self-awareness and when we're constantly focused on the self-preservation component of our careers, I think we're often proving time and time again to ourselves and to others that we are competent and we are able and we do deserve to be in this place in our career. I think a little bit of that is what maybe we're trying to prove here.
SKOT WALDRON:
Okay, good. All right. This is that side. We always need to look at ourselves though as well. Usually, I'll have you do this first for yourself, but I wanted you to do this exercise for them first so you can start to get in their head a little bit of, "Gosh, why do they have this wall up? Why am I experiencing this resistance? What is happening? Why can't we bridge this gap here of understanding? I'm bringing some awesome things to the table and I'm just getting kickback all the time?" Well, once we take a moment and think about what are they afraid of losing, what are they trying to hide? What are they trying to prove? Then I can sort of go, "Oh, okay. Well that makes sense."
SKOT WALDRON:
Now, if they are experiencing that incompetency, if that sense of feeling incompetent or maybe they're afraid of having to learn something new or they're trying to prove to themselves that they deserve to be where they're at. There's all these little things going through their heads and you're making assumptions based on this, unless you directly heard these things. Then it helps you be able to understand how to approach the situation. Maybe you approach a situation by saying, "Hey, here's some cool innovative things we're talking about doing right now and we've implemented some training for everybody, and this is how we want to implement this training." You're bringing a training component onto it.
SKOT WALDRON:
You're like, "We're aware that not everybody knows how to do this stuff." Maybe you're bringing a younger person to the table that also doesn't know how to do it so they don't see it as, "Well, you young kids, you know how to do all this stuff, and us older people don't know how to do this." "Well, no. There's somebody else that we need to teach too." You say, it's not about that. It's about trying to bring something to the table. Now, before I give you your homework, I want you to think about, I want to just ask you one question and then I want you to fill out the rest of this for yourself. What are you afraid of losing? By bringing this idea to the table, you're saying, "Hey, I've got this new process. We're innovating some things here. We're Trying to do some things." You're getting some resistance. What are you afraid of losing?
MARIA URIBE:
When I bring the idea and it's pushed back? Is that the question?
SKOT WALDRON:
Yeah.
MARIA URIBE:
Why I'm here today, I'm afraid of losing the ability to continue to bring forth innovative ideas because with the constant pushback, or not now, where pushback looks back and looks differently in different scenarios. I do feel that I'm afraid of losing that innovative trade and quality that makes me so great that has propelled my career, I think, in such a short period of time to where I am today. I'm afraid of losing a little bit of that, and I think pause is great. Where I find myself now is pausing before introducing the ideas and really thinking things through and thinking through how I communicate them. I'm afraid that, that pause will one day just be a, "Nah, I'm not even going to pitch it because they're not going to go for it."
SKOT WALDRON:
That's another self-preservation thing, I'm not even going to pitch this. Because of your fear of being rejected again, and your fear of not being able to continue to bring ideas. Because nobody likes to be rejected over and over and over again. That vulnerability comes up, and as soon as you keep experiencing that rejection over and over and over again, you're going to be more hesitant to bring those ideas to the table. Now, this is where we dive into personalities, where we at GiANT teach about five voices and work on that. We haven't gotten into five voices with you yet. Do you feel like you're the type of person that loves bringing those innovative ideas to the table and breaking the mold and blazing new trails, putting your stamp on things?
MARIA URIBE:
100%. That is who I am.
SKOT WALDRON:
Think about that. You're built to do that. You've been brought into this position and your whole purpose is doing that. Sitting in front of a computer, filling out spreadsheets is awesome for some people, they're built for that. I would assume you're not. Is that true?
MARIA URIBE:
I also do love the spreadsheet, so I'm thinking-
SKOT WALDRON:
You do love the spreadsheets. You might have aspects of that.
MARIA URIBE:
I love both, so I do. I'm the person that loves an innovative idea, but I also like the blueprint to see that idea through the project management side of it. Where I'm definitely not as great or as strong is the tactical and the implementation. I've always had really great team members that can take an idea and add to it, make it bigger, make it better, make it more functional, and then go out and implement it.
MARIA URIBE:
I can direct the implementation all day long, the actual implementation. There are so many logistical things that happen in that implementation that my brain doesn't think through prior as they're happening. You're like, "Oh yeah, I should have seen that coming." There are people that are so good at that, at the logistical. That's just not, I'm more like big picture, creative, can draw out a map all day long for you. When it comes to the tactical, definitely not my strongest skill.
SKOT WALDRON:
Think about this. You're built to bring the ideas. You're built to brainstorm. You're built to innovate. You're built to put your stamp on things and to say, "Hey, we don't need this many blocks, or we could use these blocks differently if we put them over here and do this." That's your identity, that's what you're built, that fills your purpose, your why, the things that you bring to the table. When that is rejected, how do you feel?
MARIA URIBE:
Disillusioned when it happens time and time again.
SKOT WALDRON:
Do you like feeling disillusioned?
MARIA URIBE:
No.
SKOT WALDRON:
A lot of us in our jobs, we're built to do something. We're designed to be something and to create an impact on something and someone. When we feel locked in a cage to do and be something that we're not built to do, then we feel locked in a cage. We feel confined. We feel like, "I'm just going to stay here. I'll just do my thing. I'm going to eat the food they give me and just stay in my box." Some of us, we all want to feel unlocked and we all want to be able to spread our wings and fly. Without that permission to be who we were designed to be, we just don't feel that freedom. You were built to do this. You feel constant rejection over and over again about not just the things you're doing, but the person you are.
SKOT WALDRON:
You're starting to go, "Hold on a second. They're not rejecting my idea. Now they're starting to reject what I bring to the table." Now my self-worth is like, there's all types of things that go into this. Now if we think back to that apprentice picture that we had of the young person and the old person, and we sit there and say, "Okay, looking at that, that young person may be able to bring some innovative ideas."
SKOT WALDRON:
Here's where you can start to bridge the gap where you say, "Listen, I can bring the ideas. I do not have the skills for implementation. You have been doing this for years. You know how it works. What if, again, I don't have the craft to be able to nail these in perfect, or to line this up or to cut this leather the way it does. You have a beautiful craft and I just don't have it yet, but the ideas are all there. How can you help me make this real?" Like put their stamp on it. Building that bridge is going to be so critical. Understanding each other's strengths and what you bring to the table is such a powerful tool. You said it, "I bring this stuff, I don't implement as well." How can you bring somebody in, in that process and say, "Hey, I recognize where I'm at. I need you to help me, so we can help each other build this thing."
MARIA URIBE:
That's great. This is awesome. Thank you.
SKOT WALDRON:
Good. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to finish filling these three questions out for yourself. I want you to think about, "What am I afraid of losing?" We talked about that a little bit. You can even dive into it a little bit more. Afraid of losing, it's the ability to bring ideas to the table, but why is that so important? Well, because of the type of person you are. What am I trying to hide and what am I trying to prove into whom?
SKOT WALDRON:
You're in a newer position. There may be a lot of trying to prove there that you need to recognize and look at and say, "Okay, that's maybe why I continue to push. I continue to push and push and push, and people just aren't ready for it yet." Is it you or is it them? I want you to think about that a little bit. That's your assignment. These three questions, continue to think whenever you experience that resistance, understand that it's their thoughts that they're bringing to the table. It's not necessarily the rejection of who you are, Maria. It's their thoughts and their self-preservation that is keeping them from moving forward. It's not Maria's innovative personality. That's going to be a thought process and exercise for you as well.
MARIA URIBE:
Perfect.
SKOT WALDRON:
All right. Is this helpful?
MARIA URIBE:
So helpful. I have so many ideas just flying.
SKOT WALDRON:
Gotcha. Idea person. That's what idea people do. I so appreciate you being on. This went a little longer than I thought I was going to, but hey, I hope it helps some people out there. I want to thank you for bringing this idea to the table because there's a lot of people out there that are bringing this question and concern to the table right now. I think this is going to help a lot of people. I appreciate you, Maria. You're awesome.
MARIA URIBE:
This is lovely. Thank you so much for having me.
SKOT WALDRON:
Okay. See you.
MARIA URIBE:
See you soon.
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