Unlocking How Teams Can Get More Done With David Allen and Ed Lamond

Skot Waldron (00:00.523)
if Riverside gets, you know, pixelated or whatever, it's still uploading high res on your side and high res on my side. at the end of the interview, it'll say, you should see a 99 % uploaded or whatever. Don't leave after I stop recording. It's got to finish uploading on your side in your browser. Okay. So we'll make sure that that happens. And, other than that, we'll just roll and, I am recording it.

David (00:21.07)
You've got it.

Skot Waldron (00:30.635)
So if it glitches out, something happens, I can edit later on.

David (00:34.542)
By the way, I have a package that's supposed to show up. And I'm the only person where I am right now that I may have to go buzz them in to get that. So if you have a pause button or whatever you can do with that and then edit that out, that would be great.

Skot Waldron (00:46.315)
Okay.

Skot Waldron (00:51.435)
Okay. Yeah, no worries. And, and that could be also a part where Ed is talking and you're not, what the, the way I film these two, it's always speaker focused. So it's never shown all three of us at the same time. So if you have to jet and Ed's talking, nobody will ever know. So if we want to, we do that too. It'll work. all right, gentlemen, you're ready.

David (00:57.614)
Okay.

David (01:10.19)
Okay. Cool.

Yay.

David (01:19.63)
Let's go.

Skot Waldron (01:20.459)
All right, here we go.

Skot Waldron (01:25.771)
Ed and David, we are so privileged to have you on the show. this is going to be a good one. I am, I'm excited because I have been, integrating or trying to practice the GTD framework for a long time, the getting things done framework. when I got my book years ago and now to have you on the show, it's come full circle. Grateful to have you. Thanks.

David (01:48.366)
Yay, happy to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Ed Lamont (01:51.554)
Great stuff.

Skot Waldron (01:51.947)
I I'm interested, you know, David, the GT framework was originally the, this brainchild of yours. And now you've implemented it for decades across the globe. and now teaming with ed, we're going to talk about the teams idea of this. Cause when I was sitting there thinking, I was like, well, why couldn't we have just used this for teams before, you know, like.

Couldn't we have done that before? But now you've teamed up on this thing to specifically address the teams thing. Before we get to that though, give me a little background on you David and then Ed, you take a turn and I want to hear, I want the world to get introduced to you as well.

David (02:39.15)
Well, it depends on who's listening to this. If you're familiar with my, if you're not familiar with how I came up with this, I just said, I'm the laziest guy in the world. How do we make things as easy as possible with as little stress as possible when we have a more complex, busy life? So I just came up with the actually uncovered. I didn't make it up. I just uncovered, discovered, objectified the processes we use to get our heads clear.

About what has our attention get it off our attention get it under cruise control and make sure things get done You know appropriately as opposed to bothering us in our lives So that's my that's a very short story short story of a very long story, you know, it's got so

Skot Waldron (03:31.531)
But I do, I do, I.

Ed Lamont (03:31.746)
But it's being overly modest. So why don't I step in here?

Skot Waldron (03:37.067)
And can you introduce David for me? Can you blow his image up a little bit for us?

Ed Lamont (03:42.946)
I've had the honor of introducing David a few times. He pulled this together, practiced on his clients for a while, as we do, and then wrote a book. From memory, his idea of wild success for that book was to sell 50 ,000 copies. In the meantime, it's about three and a half million copies of the Getting Things Done.

the original book that came out in 2001, that are out there in the world in about 32 languages. And so, you know, you, Scott, you mentioned as you got on that, hey, you know, you're doing this imperfectly. Well, welcome to a very large club. And, you know, if I transition away from David, who has literally changed the lives of hundreds of thousands, not everybody practices what they read.

But those who practice get huge benefits from what David pulled together. And I was one of them. So I, you know, after a fairly eclectic career through to my mid thirties, I discovered this thing called, you know, training, coaching and consulting and was being reasonably successful at it, working with, you know, large companies, McKinsey, Siemens, KPMG, Goldman Sachs, and

and not really experiencing the success that I was having because I was so stressed out by the fact that I really didn't have a system to manage all of the commitments that I had. And so when someone gave me David's book, it really changed things. It really changed what was possible for me. So I became a little bit of an evangelist in my friends and family group, started handing it out to people. Not everybody needed it as badly as I did.

but most people appreciated it. And at a certain stage, you know, went to do a seminar with David. We hit it off over drinks, tried to get something going that didn't work. Five years later, we tried again. It did work. So for the past 15 years, I've been running the GTD franchise in the UK and Ireland. And then I also, with partners, started the franchise in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.

Ed Lamont (06:07.074)
So that's a bit of my background. And then how David and I came to think that this might be a good idea is a different story altogether.

Skot Waldron (06:17.195)
Brilliant. Brilliant. David, initially when you were building the GTD framework, you talked about this idea of, you know, uncovering, but what was the problem you were trying to solve? Like why, I mean, in the book on your original book says the art of stress fee free productivity. and then you also have a, a quote in here right at the beginning. I'm going to find it.

Because I think it's really relevant. You said it is possible to be effective while doing effectively doing while you are delightfully being in your ordinary work day. Effectively doing while you're delightfully being. I mean, is what was the problem you were trying to solve? What was the thing you saw that like was irritating or so hard for so many people?

David (07:08.366)
Well, delightfully being was my high priority. And then as I started to be involved in the professional world and got busier and more inputs and other things, started to screw up that delightfully being place. I said, okay, what can I do to manage all of that stuff out there in this material world that would allow me to get back to the...

you know, experiencing more of the life of being stuff. And so I just, I didn't wake up one morning with this, Scott, as some grand epiphany. It was just like a small little epiphany here and there and here and here. But I just started to add these things into, that works. Get stuff out of my head, write it down. Decide the next action on stuff. Hmm, what a concept. Organize this stuff in some place in some external system you trust.

Review this regularly, keep it current. So your brain is relaxed and can focus on what it wants or what it is best focusing at. So that was a period of probably four or five years. I mean, we're talking 1982 to 1986, 87 or whatever, where I began to uncover these principles or these techniques about how do you keep your head clear when your world gets busier. So.

That's where it started. And then somebody in the corporate world saw that what I was doing and they then threw me into the corporate training world said, we need this in our own company to design a training around this. And so, I began that began my career, I guess, back in 1983, 84, you know, to, you know, train thousands of people in the corporate organizational world, mostly in the U S and then my consulting more.

turn more into a coaching for mid to senior level people about how do I stick death side with them? Cause they asked me, David, how do I implement this for myself? They'd either go to my seminar or heard about me or whatever. And so, so I spent literally thousands of hours, you know, testing this stuff out, researching it, pushing all the holes in it and wound up with some of the best and most challenging clients in the world.

David (09:35.886)
They couldn't punch a hole in this and it went viral on that. So that's when I said, God, maybe we could make this global. So that was when I decided, well, somebody said, write the book. So I said, how do you write a book? So I wrote the book about all this stuff I'd come up with. And then that then produced this sort of global event called GTD. So there's a very short version of a very long story, Scott.

Skot Waldron (10:06.795)
That's awesome. That's Ed. Can you introduce us to the framework, the GTD framework? initially that, David came up with.

Ed Lamont (10:17.09)
Well, sure. I mean, there's three frameworks. One is a way of getting control of your day -to -day work. And David kind of talked through that without flagging the stages, but it's basically in order to get control of your workflow, you need to be capturing the things that have your attention. You need to be thinking about what they mean for you. So clarifying what they mean. That's step two.

And then you need to organize the results of your thinking, that's step three, in some system that you trust, that you know you're gonna see things again. Every now and again you need to review that to keep it complete and up to date. So that step five, when you choose to do something, you're gonna feel good about what you're doing and good about what you're not doing. So that's one of the frameworks. It's probably the best known and it's probably overused.

in relation to the other two models, one of which is how do you know that what you're doing in terms of the detail of your life is actually connected to anything that you care about? So David's thinking there was, you know, there's different horizons on which you would make meaning out of your life. So one is, you know, what am I here for? What's my purpose? And that's sort of, you know, that has a kind of a...

an endless horizon, then what's my vision? What do I want in the next three to five years? And how am I going to go about making that happen? My goals, one to two year type stuff. And then he introduced this idea of roles, like what are the roles that I play that I have accountability for and that I need to take care of? Those all lead to.

David (12:04.654)
Sorry guys, my bell rang, my delivery just showed up. So Scott, can you put a pause button on this? Yeah.

Skot Waldron (12:13.963)
Yeah, you got it. Well, David, I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and have Ed, carry on. And like I said, nobody will know the difference, whether you're in or out. We'll, we'll start that whole segment and then you just come back in when you're ready.

David (12:19.886)
Okay, no problem.

Okay, fine. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. Thanks.

Ed Lamont (12:30.594)
Great. So taking it.

Skot Waldron (12:33.003)
So let me, let me, let's start the, sorry. Let's start that. We'll have to start that over again. Cause I want to, I want to edit that together. so sorry, I know, I know you did a great job. Now you get to do it again. Just introduce the, okay, here we go. I'm going to, I'm going to edit this in. Hold on real quick. I'm gonna put clip here.

Ed, can you introduce us to the GTD framework, that, that David built early on in his career.

Ed Lamont (13:03.97)
Sure, I mean, in fact there's three of them, one of which is probably the best known and is probably by far the most used of the frameworks, but all three of them are very, very useful in terms of getting control of what you have on. So the first one is how you get control and focus on your day -to -day workflow, and in order to do that, there's five steps.

The first one is to capture the things that have your attention. The second is to clarify by thinking about and making decisions about the things that you've captured. The third is to organize the results of your thinking into some system or on a dashboard of your commitments. And then every now and again, step four, you need to review that so that you keep it complete and up to date, which allows you when you decide to do something to feel good about what you're doing.

about all the things that you're currently not doing. Right? So there's a that's where they're kind of the stress relief comes from is You know, I'm doing I'm doing the stuff that I think is meaningful and there's a whole bunch of things here That I know what they are and it's okay not to do them the second framework is how do you Really get clear that the things that you're doing are connected to things that you care about So all those things that you've you thought about you put on a dashboard, you know, you're reviewing

and prioritizing, how do you know how to prioritize them? Well, then you need to look at how do I make meaning of my life? You know, longer term, what's my life purpose? That's a question that you definitely want to have connected to your daily activities. What's my vision for three to five years? Where do I want to get to professionally, personally, health -wise? What are my goals? One to two year type stuff.

And then David introduced this idea of roles and responsibilities. What is it that I need to maintain? What am I responsible for maintaining in my life? Things like health and relationships and depending on your job, you've probably got four to seven roles or areas of focus that you need to take care of and a similar number in your personal life. All of those lead to what David qualified as projects.

Ed Lamont (15:26.338)
And the project is a slightly different beast than most people think of when they think of a project. It's anything that's more than one step and less than a year is worth tracking somewhere so that you don't drop balls. All that goes down to the horizon, which is what am I doing right now? That's our next action idea. And then the third one is what he called the natural planning model. And that's simply a way of...

In my world anyways, it's been, you know, how I've planned just about everything in my life for the last 15 years when I need to plan. There's a small subset of things in my world that need real planning. But when I use the framework that David developed, then things, I can get moving faster with a sense that I'm doing the right things. And then I'm much more able to enjoy the...

the serendipity that shows up when you're actually in motion rather than when you're stuck on a spreadsheet trying to plan things. So now we'll pass over to David to get with, he can mark my scorecard. How did I do David?

David (16:38.046)
And better than I could have said it. So, all good. Yeah, no kidding.

Skot Waldron (16:42.315)
The student, the student becomes the master ed. So.

David, why ed and this next version you've created, you have a new book. It's it's getting things done for teams. Now, we're, I want to talk about that idea. Like you're expanding it to teams. Why did you feel the necessity to create one for teams? Did.

Did the getting things done model only pertained to more individuals? Was that targeted to individuals? And now you felt to more target teams. And did you, what frameworks did you adjust to make sure it was working for teams? Like why the teams. Step.

David (17:32.782)
simple Scott. People said I got G2D, how come I can't get everybody around me to get this? It would make life and work so much easier. That's been a question I've had for 40 years. I never had the bandwidth or the capability to actually think about how would I create a model to educate people about that or to give them the tools for that until Ed and I connected about four years ago, you know, here in Amsterdam.

We had that conversation. This has been a big missing piece. How do we get people around us to sort of get these best practices and implement them? So Ed, actually more than I has had a lot more miles on his tires than the last, you know, 10 or 20 years in working with senior teams who were trained in the sort of personal productivity best practices. And then saw how that morphed.

kind of informally and osmotically into their environments that was very productive. So we said, wait a minute, how can we keep this from being just osmotic and random? How can we sort of conceptualize what the framework is that these people are using that makes that happen? So that was the birth of this new book. And...

Ed and I worked together. And he was really the real driver and did most of the heavy lifting in terms of writing, you know, the content of what happens and what needs to happen in a team context. So, yay.

Ed Lamont (19:19.01)
Yeah, I think the other piece of that equation was, you know, I spent, let's call it 15 years teaching this stuff to, you know, really smart people, smart and motivated people who, you know, some of whom really got it, some of whom got it more or less. But then we were consistently sending them back into systems that very often didn't work. And the closest...

system to them would be their team. So if you send someone that's smart and motivated with a new tool set that has enabled them to dramatically increase their productivity while reducing their stress back into a dysfunctional team, not dysfunctional on an emotional level, but dysfunctional in terms of its standards, its structures, and its processes, then they only get to play self -defense with the system that's not working.

So that was the other thing that kind of was like, hey, you know, I think there's something that we can do here. And as David said, we were already seeing that there was, there were people who were doing things with this. If you think about it, there's this individual level of training individuals, and then there's a team level where you can intervene. And you can't fix the team level at the individual level, no matter how many people you train and how good they get.

as individuals, there's still things that are happening up here that if you don't address them, then the individuals will have to work harder than they want to.

David (20:56.878)
Look, Scott, if you have a team meeting and you have introverts that are willing to speak up.

Skot Waldron (20:57.227)
Can you?

David (21:05.198)
Or you have a meeting that's not clear about what you're trying to produce by what time in this interaction. And then you have a lot of things going on that are not relevant to what you're actually trying to produce. So these are not personal transformational issues. They're more mechanical issues as

Ed has appropriately actually defined them about what are the mechanics that we need to use to engage with people together. See, Scott, you could be really clear about what you're doing and what you're about. I could be clear about what I'm clear and what I'm doing, but you and I get together to try to decide to do something together. We have just increased exponentially the complexity.

of what has to get clear so that we're both okay about that. And that's a lot of what Ed and I and our experience has addressed in our book is to try to figure out what are the mechanics that need to be improved, enhanced, elaborated on or whatever, so that there's a lot more comfort and a lot more clarity and a lot less friction.

to get done what the team is there to do.

Skot Waldron (22:39.563)
Good. Ed, can you give me a, a S a story, a scenario of a client you've worked with, or somebody that's been impacted by the GTD framework at a team's level that you've seen success where they had this problem. I want to, I want to illustrate this for, for my listeners so that they can see, okay, yeah, I have that problem too. And how did this framework help them through that?

Ed Lamont (23:08.93)
So, I mean, there's a couple of different variations here, but let's just assume that they've already had some exposure to GTD. Like, it doesn't have to be, but what I saw was teams were getting exposure to GTD as individuals. And so they were able to do things that they previously thought were impossible, like handle their inboxes. So that's one of the things that GTD became famous for was that if you use it correctly, you can...

consistently get back to an empty inbox and have everything that you're doing some other place that gives you a much better chance of working strategically, right? So in a couple of different clients, what we saw was they were training up individuals, they were getting better at the individual stuff, but there were still things happening at the team level that they were being stymied by. So an easy example is if we just use the inbox,

We can teach people how to manage their inboxes at an individual level. What we can't do at an individual level is to help the team decide what inboxes are we using, right? Because if you work in the world, the professional world today, you don't just have one inbox anymore. You might have 36, because every piece of software that gets delivered is delivered with a chat function. So one of the teams...

to be very specific, they decided we need to go audit how many different communication channels we have. They had 23. And then we need to make decisions about which ones we're using, what we're using them for, and what are the response times for those things. Now, that's not a decision that an individual can make. That's a decision that only the team can make. Right?

Similarly, you could teach people how to attend meetings and do a good job of being an attendee in a meeting, but the team has to participate in deciding which meetings are unnecessary. So those are the kinds, it's just, it's a step up and it's a whole bunch of stuff that is actually very prosaic, but if you don't deal with it, then you're having people working harder than they need to to get to, to maybe get to important stuff.

Skot Waldron (25:32.459)
man, you just hit on the two, two biggest pain points I'm having with my clients is, my gosh, your emails. Like I can, I can see the stress and anxiety when I get on coaching calls with my clients, cause they know that when they get done with me, there's going to be 70 more emails when they're done. And then the next thing is I know that they're thinking about, my gosh, I have another meeting and another meal. I have seven more meetings after you today, Scott. And I'm just like, what is going on? Like,

The culture, the corporate culture is crazy. So David meeting culture, I'm coming off of what Ed just talked about. What, what is the problem with meeting culture today?

David (26:18.894)
Well, meetings are how things really get good stuff done. The reason they don't is the purpose of the meeting is not clear. The timeframe of the meeting is not clear. The end of the meeting is not clear in terms of what was decided and who's going to do what about it. So there's a lot of crappy meetings that then crappy emails. We need to send another meeting. I wasn't clear. I wasn't even there. But then create another crappy meeting that is not clear about what, you know, so there's this.

a descending black hole in terms of those things. But that's because the team is not clear. What are we doing? How do we do that? What are the processes we need to put in place to make sure that that happens appropriately? There are very few teams, I don't know, Ed, Validator, not this, the very few teams we've met that have that rigored down. When they do,

then that opens their vocabulary, it opens their consciousness, it opens their focus about the cool stuff. Our team is a team because we're trying to do X, Y, and Z. So they've lost the ability to truly move on what the team is about because of the mechanics. They're just screwed. And they're not hard to fix. This is not...

rocket science these are these are not like new technologies or new vocab you know languages you need to learn these are just things that make that stuff work

Skot Waldron (28:01.547)
What's the, what's ed before you, before you go off on, well, actually I'd go ahead and say your thing. You might answer my question by saying what you're going to say.

Ed Lamont (28:01.697)
I don't know.

Ed Lamont (28:10.562)
We'll find out. So, I mean, I think it's worth going back to the core of what we wrote. As we thought about, you know, what's happening on Teams and you've already mentioned, you know, workplace culture. We did a lot of thinking about, you know, what is it that's missing, what's necessary on Teams? And the core of what we came up with is that healthy high performance.

is what's missing, right? There's lots of teams out there that are high performing, but they're sacrificing the health of their body, their mind, their relationships in order to be high performing. And there's lots of teams out there that are, they're really friendly with each other, but they're kind of stuck in terminal mediocrity. And so we see that as not opposite ends of a spectrum, but just a creative tension that,

the team can manage better than an individual. Individuals have to do it. They make their own trade -offs. But to a certain extent, individuals, you know, once they've got a mortgage and a couple of kids, they're becoming defenseless in the face of their employer because they've got a lot of bills to pay. So very often they get stuck in a cycle of eating into their reserves instead of doing something sustainably. And then...

to David's point, which is that it's not just healthy high performance of the people on the team, but it's healthy in terms of the team structures, healthy in terms of the team processes, healthy in terms of the standards that are held for that team. So that's the core. Everything else that we talk about in the book is basically pointing at how do you get that? And once you got it, how do you maintain it? And how do you transfer it to the people who are joining your team who weren't on your team last week? And...

You know, like, so that churn on teams is a big thing that needs addressing as well.

Skot Waldron (30:15.659)
One of the things that you do so well in this book, and it almost started out with this, the simplicity of the way David introduced himself, right? It's the simplicity of your framework, the simplicity of your thought, the simplicity of the system, the, like, I love that aspect of this whole thing. And the thing I love about is that it is so simple. You have me create these little simple exercises.

that you do when you facilitate workshops or when you, when you're doing anything with this framework, what is one simple thing you suggest teams do right at the beginning, or maybe just to become aware, when it deals with either meeting culture or email culture, if we're going to talk about those two things, cause I think everybody on this that's listening will relate. What is one quick, impactful, simple exercise, David that you have find to be helpful for.

people in workshops or when you're facilitating.

David (31:16.59)
Well, I think Ed and I would share this. Two things.

What are you doing?

What is it, what are you trying to accomplish? What's the purpose of this thing that has shown up in your world and where does that fit into your world? And the second thing is what has your attention about this? And how do you get this under control? Either by deleting it, referencing it, or deciding some action you need to do about this. So that gets off your mind. Same is true for teams.

So I don't think there's any differences. Like I thought I walked into your team, Scott, right now. I said, well, great. And that could be, if you have a light partner, you got at least that team, plus any others that are trying to make this podcast work. Right? I said, well, what has the team's attention right now? If nothing, nothing to do. Your crew, it's great. You're all on cruise control. No issue. If not.

What's got your attention? What needs to be changed, challenged, acknowledged, appropriated in terms of opportunity or whatever. And that would simply be the first discussion I would have. So those two things called what's, you know, why are you a team? You even consider yourself a team because there's something you want to accomplish together.

David (32:53.07)
with other people. Right. So clarifying what that is, making that current, making that real, making that operational in terms of how you make decisions about what's on purpose, what's not. Those two things, I think, are the critical things from my standpoint. Ed, back to you.

Ed Lamont (33:14.274)
Yeah, definitely those things. And, you know, we did two full chapters in the book on basically what we're calling working standards. And I think, you know, one of the places where you could get traction very quickly and easily is to get fairly granular about how you want to work together. So, you know, people who do this kind of thing very often have created a list of

of how we want to work together. And that list looks like respect, trust, honesty, and all those things, which are great. I absolutely want all those things on teams that I play on. We're saying, let's go a step further. Let's think about what does trust and respect and honesty mean on a day -to -day basis? What is respect in terms of...

how long I have to wait to hear back from you when I send you something. What is respect in terms of how delegation gets done on this team? Is it a one -liner in an email or if it's a big job, are we gonna take some time, talk it through, make clear what resources you get, make clear exactly what it looks like when you finish so you know when you've won the game? So if people...

you know, take the time to articulate their standards for meetings. Right? You know, this is again, as David said, it's not complicated stuff. You know, do I have to go to a meeting for which the purpose is not clear? Do I have to go to a meeting for which I can see no meaning in my being there? And the team needs to talk about, do you have permission to not show up if someone puts a meeting in your diary and hasn't told you what it's about?

That would save people, save teams thousands of hours a year if they just had that standard.

Skot Waldron (35:14.571)
I agree. I agree. And it's, it's something that, you know, I, I had a client recently that, they, they put out an email expressing that, you know, the idea behind meeting culture of, Hey, we need to, you know, change some things. You have permission to not go to these meetings, opt out, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

What I find really hard is the actual implementation of that and also lower management or the day -to -day employees actually having the guts to not show up for that meeting. upper management may say, Hey, you have, you have permission. But then what I'm hearing is that the employees are all often saying, well, yeah, they're saying that, but if I don't show up.

And then they need something from me and I wasn't there. Then I look incompetent or I look like I'm not engaged or I look dead. Then I have a problem. What do you tell people in that situation?

David (36:22.766)
You tell the boss grow up and you tell the people grow up.

Ed Lamont (36:33.474)
or grow up now.

David (36:33.582)
Why are you doing this? And then why are you going? If no other of those are clear, the boss may be the issue. It could be that people's personal productivity is an issue. But the template doesn't solve that issue. It just defines it.

Ed Lamont (36:58.21)
Yeah, I mean, I think we're aligned. I mean, the book that we wrote, because there was so much material to cover simply on the mechanics of a team, just what needs to happen almost mechanically for the team to function well, we parked the idea of team dynamics. We parked the idea of having, you know,

Skot Waldron (36:58.315)
Good head. Did you want to add something to that?

Ed Lamont (37:25.218)
honest, open conversations, those all need to be happening. It's not the subject of the book, but if asked, then I agree with David that in the economy that we live in, you're getting paid for your best ideas, not for your worst fears. So if what's driving you in the meetings that you're attending is that you feel that if you don't show up, something bad might happen,

even though you think it's a stupid idea for you to be there, then you're really not bringing your best thinking to the team that you're on. And everybody will say, well, you don't know the team that I work on. Of course I don't. There's always going to be difficulties. But if we can't get ourselves to do the simple stuff, like this is simple stuff, right? There is no purpose for this meeting. If someone's not able to raise that,

as the meeting starts and simply say, look, I noticed that we decided as a team or as an organization that we weren't going to have meetings without a purpose and we don't have a purpose for this meeting. Can we just take five minutes and get that clear? I guarantee you that meeting is hundreds of percent more effective because someone talked about something that's actually real because everybody's sitting around the table going, I wonder if anybody else is going to say anything about the fact that we don't know why we're here.

It's a leadership move.

Skot Waldron (38:55.947)
It is, it is a leadership mo move. And I think that there's a lot of self preservation that goes into both sides of that conversation. but I, again, the GTD framework, getting things done framework really helps, I think give a structure around that, for implementation. It still takes the people to get that done. and. And,

understand the vulnerability and the openness and the transparency and the implementation parts that have to happen from the people side. So, but I, I thank you for putting this into the world because these are the things we need and we've needed for decades. So thank you, David, for. Uncovering, I guess we will say, the, the framework for us. so getting things done, the art of stress free productivity,

And then now the, the new book of getting things done with others is, is out. And I am super excited to get my hands on that because like I said, I have not gotten hands on that one yet. I've got my copy of the original right here. but the team's one, I will definitely be getting my hands on that one. Where can people find that book? I assume anywhere they buy books or is there something special you have going on right now or anything?

Ed Lamont (40:18.882)
We both support local bookstores, so if you can get it from your local bookstore, please do so. That will keep bookstores available for the next generation. And obviously all the big online retailers have got it as well.

Skot Waldron (40:36.107)
Okay. if you want to get in touch with you, is there a specific channel they should use?

David (40:43.438)
Well, I'm available.

David at davidco .com, d -a -v -i -d at d -a -v -i -d dot c -o Personal emails, fine. I respond to them all. And then you can go to our website, you know, gettingthingsdone .com slash W, you know, YouTube, if you want to see a whole lot of me, little small video snippets of me doing shtick about, you know.

Ed Lamont (40:59.65)
Yep, and you can...

David (41:16.334)
all these best practices. So those are some, you know, current immediate resources people use.

Skot Waldron (41:24.971)
Okay, Ed, how about you?

Ed Lamont (41:26.818)
You can find me, I mean the fastest way to my brain is ed at edlamont .com and or you could go to my company website which is next -action .co .uk.

Skot Waldron (41:44.267)
All right. Brilliant gentlemen. It has truly been a privilege to hang out with you. Thank you for your time and, your effort, your brain, your knowledge, everything you've given the world. Thank you. And continue to spread the good work that you're doing.

Ed Lamont (41:58.978)
Great stuff. Thank you, Scott.

David (42:00.558)
Okay, thanks, Scott.