Unlocking Our Young People with Hillary Spiritos

Skot Waldron (00:04.77)
I’m Skot Waldron and when I’m not hosting Unlocked, I’m speaking at events all over the globe, helping leaders and teams communicate better, build trust faster, and actually enjoy working together. I know, who would have thought? I’ve spoken for companies like the Home Depot, I’ve spoken at national architectural firms, at their sales trainings, off sites for major pharmaceutical companies, and industry associations. A thousands of attendees who have read my sessions.

With 99 % of them saying they found the sessions valuable, 97% saying they’d actually attend again. I’ve had caterers come up to me afterwards and thank me because they actually got something they could use when they went home or when they went back to their own jobs. I mean, if every keynote delivered those types of numbers, nobody would secretly be refreshing their email under the table. And let’s be honest, that’s a little bit of my nightmare, maybe a little bit of yours. Yeah, something that keeps me up at night. If you’re an event planner, looking for a speaker who’s easy to work with and delivers actual value that people can take away and use on Monday. Let’s make your event unforgettable.

Young people are making a move. Oh yeah, they are coming full force, y’all. It’s a tsunami of young people coming, and they’re actually kind of already here. They’re called millennials and Gen Z. And then later on, it’s going to be Gen Alpha and Gen whatever, Beta and Gen whatever comes after that. We have to learn to understand what different generations are needing and going through at the particular time.

And, Hillary Spiritos is going to be on today to talk about young people and talk about the younger generations and the way that we as leaders need to understand and adapt to younger generations, defining what success looks like and understanding how to navigate advice and all types of things. But also, for young people that are listening to this show, what you need to also do to tap into your own gifts and to tap into that big question of what do I do next? What do I do next? What now? Where do I go? What do I do? How do I do this? We’re going to get into a lot of that. We have a really good discussion about this, and I push her on some stuff. Okay, so all of you older generations, your leaders, you people, boomers, older Xers that are that are just there to complain about the young people. This episode is for you because you’re going to hear it from here, you may agree and you may not agree, but I do push her on some stuff that I want her to explain. So, I hope you listen. And she’s got so much gold, I think to share as my guests normally do. Hillary Spiritos founder of Bat Out of Hell.

Hillary Spiritos, founder of Bat Outta Hell, yeah, we’re gonna talk about that title of her company, is a pathfinding coach dedicated to helping young adults pursue the lives they envision by building self-trust and discovering their potential. She conducts workshops on essential life skills such as leadership development, interviewing, resilience, and maximizing your study abroad experience.

So here we come, Hillary, it’s gonna be awesome. Why do I know? Because I’m the one who interviewed you. Let’s do it.

Skot Waldron (03:26.668)
Hello, Hillary. What’s going on?

Hillary Spiritos (03:29.668)
Hi, so great to be here. I’m excited to talk.

Skot Waldron (03:34.668)
You are, do you like talking?

Hillary Spiritos (03:36.650)
Yeah, I do. And especially on topics that I’m particularly interested in, which is young adults and figuring out how to look inward rather than outward for answers, can bond for a while.

Skot Waldron (03:49.608)
So not only answers, but validation. What about that?

Hillary Spiritos (03:53.25)
Sure, absolutely. Well, let’s strike the word should, right? But like, absolutely looking inward for self-validation is absolutely preferable.

Skot Waldron (04:03.608)
I assume that’s one of your things. Looking inward.

Hillary Spiritos (04:09.25)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think I think I want to caveat this by saying, because I’m talking to a few clients and working with people who are we all tend to judge ourselves quite a bit. So, if you also are looking for validation externally, or enjoy external validation, you don’t need to judge yourself for looking for that or feeling that way or feeling like you should be past that. Right? We all that’s a human thing to want.

So, it’s not like they’re not usually exclusive. It’s not like you should to be the good person, you should absolutely only look for internal validation, but that’s when you’re more at peace. That’s when you feel like happier and more secure and who you are and what you’re doing and what you want, regardless of what anybody else says.

Skot Waldron (04:54.610)
Cool. I had you on the show today because you’ve got a particular interest in young people. And that is a big deal right now with the humongous wave of Gen Z coming down the pipeline. Then we’ve got Alpha and then whatever you want to call them. And then you’ve got the millennials that are like 30 something percent of our workforce right now and increasing every day.

And there’s not a lot of trust put in the younger generations by the older generations, right? You know, lot of boomers aren’t retiring because one work is their identity and they don’t trust the younger generations yet. They hear there’s just a huge gap in the way they think and the way they do things, the way they were frankly raised is different. Society was different. Media was different work ethics and the way we thought about work was different.

Not right or not wrong is just different. So, when you think about this, I mean, if I asked, you know, if I asked a boomer to define success for me, what does that look like? I think I would hear something different than what I hear from younger people. so, for all those young people out there that are thinking about this, even the older people, they’re listening to this right now, thinking about how do I define success for my younger people, what would you say?

Hillary Spiritos (06:25.250)
So that is a really great question. And you also just touched on a bunch of really intricate and important points, which is the world is different. And so, it is important for everybody to recognize that. And so that’s why I exist in the space that I’m in as someone who’s not parents, friends, or a therapist, particularly because in regard to parents or perhaps older people in general, it is hard to relate to the world of today.

In regard to success, that’s a really interesting question because yes, success looks different generationally, absolutely. And success looks different for everybody. And we’re going back to looking internally. So, what does success look like for you is the question we want to ask. But yes, I would venture to say that for boomers or potentially older generations, success might have been climbing a corporate ladder, making more money, owning more cars or more things, more monetary or external things.

Whereas I still think there are young people, of course, who validate and who are validated by that, want that stuff. That’s what they value. And that’s what success means to them. But I also think that there are a lot of young people who are looking for success in other ways and just trying to like see themselves as successful and what that means.

Skot Waldron (07:51.742)
So how has life shaped that, I don’t know, that story for you? I mean, are, how old are you, may I ask?

Hillary Spiritos (08:03.250)
I’m 33.

Skot Waldron (08:04.742)
33. So, you lived your 20s, you’re into your 30s now. Some older people may be like, Hillary, you haven’t lived your full life yet. Like there’s so much you don’t know. But why do you think you are particularly important in this space in order to talk about this thing.

Hillary Spiritos (08:26.240)
Sure. I think it’s really critical to understand exactly what you said about like you haven’t lived as much of your life yet. It’s really, that’s not really the question. It’s not a question of have I experienced my entire life and then can look back and help young adults. And it’s also not a question of me being an expert on anyone or on anything. You are an expert on you. You are the one, there’s nobody who knows you more than you. So, I am the guide to help you get deeper into knowledge about yourself. But I would say I have an interesting really, like I believe I exist in an interesting space that again is a near peer of someone who has gone through a lot of what you’re going through or these young adults are going through and can help guide them through it. I also think that I go deeper than a lot of coaches, which is not only talking about who you are, what you want to be and what you want your life to look like and trying to help you get there, but also helping you dig a little bit deeper and really become honest and engage with your inner child. Because I really believe that you can’t live an honest, fulfilling, authentic life and get really stuck in there unless you cultivate a relationship with your inner child and begin to own your fears, insecurities, and anxieties and recognize how they manifest and interact with your daily adult life and circumstances.

Skot Waldron (09:58.018)
These are words and phrases that, you know, we would not have heard in the workplace 20, 30 years ago, right? I mean, the stuff you’re talking about is stuff that, you know, I talk about a lot as well in the corporate space and there are more, it’s being more accepted, you know, I think in the space, I think because the younger generations are starting to be such a heavy, play a heavy role in that.

That it’s really unique and interesting you to start talking. So, I agree. I think that you are the perfect person to be talking about this. Okay. Because of your unique space in life, and where you are, what do you think are some common, misconceptions that people throw on maybe you and generations like yours about, you know, what’s going on in the place of work and what you’re doing as part of your identity and what not.

Hillary Spiritos (10:58.140)
I think just going back to what you were saying earlier about what success looks like, I think just because it’s the way it’s always been done and just because the way the Boomers and Gen X and other people had defined success and existed in these certain systems doesn’t mean that those systems are correct or working. And in fact, a lot of them, most of them are crumbling. So, I think especially young generations can be, or younger generations can be seen as lazy, bucking the status quo, not wanting to do any work, not aimless, whatever you want to call it. And there are a lot of people who talk down to young adults and belittle young people, which does a disservice and doesn’t really help anybody and don’t recognize that we are living in a completely different contextual world.

But I think young adults are part of this generation that again are having these conversations and are living in a world that are not accepting of this is how it’s always been done. And I think that is a really empowering and fierce place to be. And some people perhaps of older generations can’t connect with that or recognize it. But I also think that there are a lot of people of older generations who totally think that’s fierce and love that about the younger generation as well.

Skot Waldron (12:21.118)
Yeah, I love that you threw the word fierce in there and I think you’re right. I’m not going to say, I don’t like to box anybody in and say, old older people think about this about younger people and all younger people think this about older people. Because we all have these boxes that we put people in, which isn’t fair. I mean, I do believe, I mean, I talk about multi-generational workforce dynamics a lot. People are complicated, but we’re kind of not, we do fit into certain boxes and styles and criteria based on our, you know, different ways we’ve been raised and different thought patterns we have and different things that we do. So, I think we can use those as a guide, but I think saying that you have to act this way because you are 24 years old is like a problem, right? Or I expect this of you because this is how all 60-year-olds act. Like that’s a problem.

Hillary Spiritos (13:11.140)
Absolutely. And I also think that you’re talking to a young generation or younger generations, plural, that we’re not given the opportunity to learn the skills that older generations have. So, if you want to get intricately about like how to behave in the office, how to write an email, how to make a telephone call, like all of these things, like some of that is because the technology has developed, right? But there’s also due to social media, due to helicopter parenting, due to the COVID pandemic and the fact that these generations have had to finish their university years and enter corporate world in a different way, they haven’t had the opportunity to develop or learn those skills in the first place.

Skot Waldron (13:57.422)
So true. And they’re just different. The way they’ve learned them has been different and it’s super interesting. So, we have a culture, well, I would say a lot of older cultures and I’m going to say depending on industry and depending on kind of work style, that performance is really a focus. Like performance, performance, performance. Like most leadership programs focus on performance. And rightly so. If we’re not performing or underperforming, there’s a problem.

We need to fix it, okay? But you focus a lot on self-trust. So, I’m gonna ask you this, is performance overrated?

Hillary Spiritos (14:37.100)
Well, no, in the way that absolutely, as you’re saying, you have to hit KPIs or OKRs or whatever you need to hit at your job. So, you have to perform successfully at your job in order to keep your job, in order to get promotions. So that’s not going away. But I will say that what I believe is important for oneself right, perhaps less of the corporate structure is to develop self-trust, self-resilience, like self-reliance, resilience, the ability to tolerate discomfort, be able to take risks, to cultivate your own voice. All of these tools, I think, or maybe what we call quote and quote soft skills even, are more important because that’s how you’re going to grow. And I personally think that growth is the most important thing. Great. All that kind of stuff.

Skot Waldron (15:38.54)
Yeah, we focus too much on performance. I mean, I tend to agree with you. I think that there is an idea that performing in this task and this job will develop that skill and that competency for now and for the future. You’ll have this thing that you can do. But developing the inner ability to learn, to be ambitious, to like those types of things that will help me be more competent and more things, right? I think that that’s the engine that’s gonna drive everything else. And the competency, the performances only an external manifestation of the inner work that we do. And if we’re not focusing on the inner work, the outer work will suffer and then we’ll just get criticized and then have to move on to something else that we then again have to relearn.

Hillary Spiritos (16:33.105)
Exactly. If you need to do something at work and something that you need to be done includes following up with somebody or includes having a conversation with somebody or some research that you have to do on your end, the ability to do all of those things and figuring out how to do all of those things and the trust that you can get it done in time, to trust that you can do it well, that you can figure out how to do it, that you can be comfortable asking other people for help and asking questions, all of that stuff, well helping your performance will also help you become a stronger individual.

Skot Waldron (17:10.154)
So, let’s relate this back to, so the things we’ve been talking about, you use these three words before we started recording, helping people live their fullest, fiercest, most authentic life. Like the fierce word, and you used it earlier too about describing how some older individuals will be like, hey, that’s even fierce. Like that word, I don’t hear thrown around too much, Hillary. I like that you’ve started, you own that thing. So, keep it, keep it. What does that mean to you?

Hillary Spiritos (17:44.112)
I think to me, it means unapologetic. It means without embarrassment. It means it is up to you. It is your doing. It is what you want. It is in control. It is you’re the captain of your own ship. And I think all of that is fierce. To be able to do something that is maybe outside of your comfort zone, that’s fierce.

To do something that other people say you can’t or not capable of or shouldn’t or whatever, that’s fierce. To buck convention, that’s fierce. To start something new is fierce. Like all of this stuff is a real act of courage. And I think what’s really important to recognize is we don’t absolutely like across the board give ourselves enough credit for being fierce or courageous. I think there’s, we recognize courageous or fierce as like these big things that we do in life, but we all engage in acts at all day every day on regular basis. And I think it’s really important to recognize that in yourself and give yourself credit.

Skot Waldron (18:47.104)
Okay. You’re scaring a lot of my listeners right now. These, you know, some of these, you know, people leaders, older generation CEOs at C-suite people, founders, whatever that are our listeners in my show and they’re listening to you right now. And they’re just, they’re gritting their teeth. Cause I hear it all the time. You know, it’s kind of like, ah, like I, yes, it is the way we’ve always done things. Yes. I don’t need you complaining every time we’re trying to implement something about how it doesn’t act that way anymore, how we don’t do things like that anymore. And then when I hear you talk about the fierce thing, there’s some really good qualities in there that I think I as an older generation owning a company would want. I want you to push the envelope. Well, I hope that there’s those leaders out there. I want you to push the envelope. I want you to challenge the status quo. I want you to bring your knowledge to what we have because you are the next generation. We need to learn how to adapt and sell to that generation.

But what I do hear you saying is like things like unapologetic, right? Or like, you’re the captain of your own ship. I almost hear some of that being like, you know what? I’m not going to be sorry for not following your rules, because my rules are my rules. And I set my rules. If you don’t like them, then I have to leave. I don’t have to work here. I can just go somewhere else. To a generation, it’s really about loyalty and about like, and understanding what loyalty means, that’s when they’ll throw that loyalty hat in, that loyalty card. They’ll say people just aren’t loyal anymore. They don’t wanna follow the rules. They just wanna do their own thing and buck every trend. They think they know everything. That’s where that comes into play. So, I want you to defend those statements in a sense of like, I need to hire people that are for the team, for the company, for the growth of all of us. I don’t need every single person I hired to just be looking out for themselves. And I know I’m speaking on behalf of older generations, because I hear this a lot. So please speak to that.

Hillary Spiritos (20:51.212)
So, there are a couple of things here. Firstly, there’s an interesting point about loyalty to be made. I think young people and young adults are really feeling that there’s a lack of loyalty in corporate America or corporate world and feeling like they’re not showing me any loyalty. I’ve watched my dad, my mom, my older sister, or whomever have worked for 30 years, gotten laid off. I’ve gotten laid off three times this year, whatever it might be. And there is an understanding that corporate America is looking out for their bottom line, not necessarily for their people. So, I will say that loyalty is an interesting conversation to be had there. I would also say, yeah, I think that there are two things. One, if there is an individual who really doesn’t want to follow those companies’ rules or whomever they’re working for or in whatever structure they’re working in, doesn’t want to follow those rules and really is fiercely staunchly against that and not paying attention, then maybe they’re not the right fit for that company. And maybe they should be doing something else or working for themselves or figuring out why they’re not feeling like they want to follow those rules. Maybe there’s something else going on underneath.

But I also think that people aren’t generally bucking rules for no reason. I think it’s generally because maybe they need to understand why better. Maybe they need to understand the context of what they’re doing better. Maybe they would like to have more of a voice and they don’t feel like there’s a seat at the table. Maybe they are ways to make them feel more invested. So, I wouldn’t necessarily say that young adults are saying, screw the rules, I don’t care, I don’t wanna do this. I know that there are a lot of young adults who are unemployed and would love the chance to work for a company. There’s another, like, there’s, that’s maybe another conversation about loyalty. They’re feeling like no one’s even hiring and like they’re getting ghosted by companies they’re interviewing for. And so that maybe doesn’t instill that. So, there’s a lot of layers here.

Skot Waldron (22:57.220)
I love that. I often say, when I’m, one of my keynotes about generational workforce stuff is, you know, lot of younger generations, they have been treated like cog in a cognitive system and are disposable, and then we complain when they leave. And I think it’s this whole, like it’s a cycle, right? That like, kind of devours itself because what happens is that somehow the media has taught us or that we’ve experienced, you know, and I’m not going to say it doesn’t happen, but we’ve experienced younger generations jumping like job hopping. Now it’s becoming an older generation thing too, but people are job hopping. So, there’s not a lot of loyalty. So, what do companies do? They say, well, I’m not going to invest in Hillary because she’s probably not going to be here very long anyway. So, I’m going to give her the handbook. I’m going to see how she does and see how, and then Hillary sits there and looks at things and goes, I’m not getting invested in very much. Like, so why would I stay here? This other company just offered me a gig and they’re going to invest in me. So, I’m going to go over here, and we say, well, see, just can’t find good people these days, right? You just can’t find any loyalty. And we wonder why that’s happening. And it’s because of this thing of like, rightly so. It’s like, do I really invest that much in this person who I don’t feel like is going to be here anyway? Do I send them to these conferences? Do I invest in all this money and training for them? But I think it’s a tough dilemma.

Hillary Spiritos (24:28.200)
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely understand that. I would venture to say that if you do invest in somebody’s growth, the more likely they would be to stay and invest in your company. But obviously that’s not a hard and fast rule. But I would venture to say that the more that they feel like, there’s an actually onboarding process. There’s like people who are investing in me learning the skills that I don’t have. There are people I can ask for help or there are people I can ask questions to, and I don’t feel like it’s a closed door and I sound stupid. Like all of these things will allow people to feel more like they would stay.

Skot Waldron (25:07.266)
Amen. I mean, and that’s the thing is like we have such a perfect situation right now. The older generations that are ending their careers have so much wisdom and so much knowledge about what they’ve done. I Boomers were the biggest group of entrepreneurs we’ve ever seen. They built so much, right? And the younger generations need to understand that and recognize that. Like they haven’t just been working in corporate their whole lives. They’ve built crap and like a lot of it.

The most entrepreneurial generation ever. And they have so much to pass on. And they’re not mentoring the way that I think the younger generations want to be mentored or poured into enough. The younger generations want it. They crave it. They understand that you know what, it’d be amazing to learn how to you make a good sales call. Like, please pour into me because I want knowledge that you have. I just don’t have it.

And until we get an understanding that there’s this like, hey, you both want something that you can both give each other. Like, let’s do this thing. You know, have you noticed that at all?

Hillary Spiritos (26:16.156)
Yeah, absolutely. I think I mean, I keep reading these articles about these multi-generational living situations about how young people because they can’t necessarily afford to live on their own are living with roommates, obviously, but then sometimes they live with roommates that are of a different generation, like because old person’s home or nursing home has partnered with a like university or whatever. Like I’m not fully sure but there, I mean there’s wisdom on both ends to be had absolutely and I think that people who are open to learning and open to having these conversations and have a growth mindset and want communication and collaboration, I think there’s so much potential there to do incredible things.

Skot Waldron (27:07.97)
There is, and I hope that we understand that more and more instead of just complaining about each other all the time because that’s not going to help.

I love the name of your company, Bat Outta Hell. Like, hold like what? So why did you pick that name? I had to look up the origination. I’m going to share that in a second. Why’d you pick the name?

Hillary Spiritos (27:31.198)
Yeah, so I firstly am not a like, one size fits all cookie cutter. This is how it’s always been done person let alone coach. So, I didn’t, I wanted a name that shook things up a bit that was a bit left of center, a little edgier, a little unique. And that felt right with my ethos. I’m a little rock and roll. I also just generally have a real love of bats. I think that bats are really, they’re rad, they’re highly perceptive social creatures that spend most of their time upside down. So, they’re seeing the world from a different perspective. And then they also symbolize transformation and rebirth and coming out of the old and into the new and out of the darkness and into the light. All of which I just think is pretty badass and pretty fierce. So, I wanted a name that evoked that as well.

And then you can also, had a conversation with somebody about Batman and about like how I believe, if I’m correct, faced his fear of bats and became Batman. And like, that’s pretty dope and pretty like fierce in that end. Also, I’m like a child of 70s, 80s rock and roll. So, I really love the music. So, like the artists, so it’s all the confluence of everything, babe.

Skot Waldron (28:53.157)
Well, that’s it. The phrase, I mean, it says it was recorded, I mean, the first common uses were like in the 20s and 30s, like Meatloaf. He’s the one who popularized it. That album, you know? But it’s like. I mean, hello? You know? Like it’s cemented that phrase in our pop culture forever. So, the phrase, right? Like Bat Outta Hell. Like think chaotic, desperate, speed. It says like a bat, traditionally spooky and nocturnal, bursting out of a terrifying place. The phrase mixes fear, velocity and unpredictability. They’re probably running out the door before HR people. I totally agree with all of that. What do you not agree with?

Hillary Spiritos (29:45.198)
I think that understanding had a lot more, it felt like had a lot more fear and aggression than a lot. It was more like, I don’t like this rather than coming and the growth from being maybe in hell and coming out of it or like or coming out of the darkness and into the light. It was more of like wanted something with momentum.

Skot Waldron (30:16.107)
Okay, well definitely has momentum. But when you think about the phrase, like it is leaving something that is dark that I’m not happy with. Something that I’m feeling not fulfilled by and really going into something that’s more hopeful. Something that can help me do that, right? So, you know, maybe I was laid off. Maybe I’m a young, you know, I’m just out of school. I had my first job, and I get laid off.

And I’m sitting there thinking and I’m talking to my dad about this thing. Cause that’s what I do is I talk to my parents and they’re giving me all kinds of advice because they’ve been through it, they don’t want me to live through the crap they’ve lived through. And my dad is just like, you know, maybe you should just apply for dental school. And I’m like, I don’t know if I want to do that. As a coach, what would you advise me? What’s my thing?

Hillary Spiritos (31:08.245)
That’s actually the conversation or very similar conversation that I’ve had with some of my clients. I would first, and I would say that some clients even go like, maybe I should, because that is the quote unquote safe thing to do, go back to school. I know school. I’m perhaps good at school, or at least I understand the environment and understand the rules. Maybe I should do that. The questions I would start to ask are, what do you really want to do? Do you want to go back to school and go in this direction or is that something that you’re doing out of fear? Also, why are we looking at parents for advice? And do you feel like you just necessarily agree with what they say? Why do you think that what they say is better than what you know about yourself? What is the fear that you have about going in a different direction. And then when you answer all those questions, you wanna ask, is that true? How does that answer serve you? Like, maybe I should go back to school because I understand school and I know how that works. Okay, how does that serve you? Does that really mean that you’re not capable of doing something else? And they say, I don’t know, I may not be capable. Like, how does that thought serve you? Is that true? Like, why do you feel that way? Where does that come from? Maybe that comes from feeling like, your parents only gave you attention or support when you got A’s and anything less than A’s was not deemed acceptable. There are all these things that we learn about as young adults and kids that this messaging that we’ve received that have completely impacts and completely has impacted how we view our adult life. And that’s what we want to start unpacking.

Skot Waldron (32:57.578)
Nice. Who should they be going to for advice if they want advice, if they’re getting advice, if maybe it’s not their parents?

Hillary Spiritos (33:05.215)
I would say yourself, but if you don’t feel comfortable asking yourself or believing yourself or trusting in yourself, or if you don’t necessarily know how to access that or hear your inner voice or gut or even if you can’t hear and you don’t know what your inner voice is saying because you’ve never listened to it before, then I would say come talk to someone like me who can help guide you through that.

This is not to say you can’t talk to your friends about it or your parents or a therapist about it or somebody else in a different way, but all of those people serve different purposes, and they have their own fears, hopes, projections, all of that stuff that they’re going to pass on to you. Your parents are saying go to dental school because they believe that’s safe because they are afraid that maybe you won’t be successful at something else that you might want to do that’s perhaps riskier, whatever that means.

Or they wish they were a dentist, and they want that for you. Or they only believe that being a doctor or a dentist or some kind of person in that strata is success. And so, anything less than that is not acceptable. So, it depends on what their reasoning is, but that has nothing to do with what you actually want, perhaps.

Skot Waldron (34:27.308)
Okay, that’s good. Let’s take on this idea of advice. I have a question for you here too. What is, I don’t know, you might have to think about this for a second. What is like a terrible piece of advice that well-meaning adults give to people young in their career that just absolutely drives you crazy when you hear it?

Hillary Spiritos (34:52.494)
I would say, this is just anything related to how this has been, it’s been done. So, anything related to how you should send your resume or how you should call them directly or like anything that’s like, I have some client who’s trying to figure out how to apply for jobs and their parents keep selling them to call the like office directly. And that works maybe when I was younger.

But there are people like the human beings aren’t even answering these phones anymore. Right? So, you have to figure out another way to do that. I think that anything related to what you should or shouldn’t be doing, that’s a bad piece of advice. Yeah, I think we want to start list or something that’s like, you should study business. If you don’t know what you want to do, study business. That’s really bad advice.

Skot Waldron (35:54.108)
Why is that one bad advice? Business just like cover it all like I don’t know. Just go get your MBA and then it’s like OK, you know. So why is that one particularly?

Hillary Spiritos (36:07.000)
I would say if you have an interest in studying business, then that’s fine and great. But if you feel like you don’t know what you want to do and you might as well just study business, I would say this. First, if you don’t know what you want to do, what I would suggest doing is trying a lot of different things and then seeing what you decide on. I would also suggest figuring out if you even like math first, because I’ve had a lot of students and a lot of clients say, I’m just going to study business. And they like actually don’t enjoy the actual material in the classes. Or if you talk to people and you say, I’m going to study business. And then you ask them, do you like the idea of sitting behind a computer? What would you like your life to look like? And if they might say something that’s completely not related to what business looks like. Also, if you ask a lot of people and they say business, they don’t even know what type of business they want to be in. They don’t even know what that means to study business. They don’t know the concentrations. I think so. There’s this idea of and also it just implies that that is successful, which that might not even be what you value or what you want.

So, I would venture to say, look inward and ask yourself what kind of life do you want? What do you want to spend your time doing? Do you want to spend your days drawing? Do you want to spend your days writing? Do you want to spend your days like researching? Like, what do you want to do? And then kind of go from there.

Skot Waldron (37:43.000)
Yeah, I think that’s really good. We get so focused on the immediacy of knowing now what I need to do now, and young people are so pressured into picking a direction that they’re going to have for them. I mean, honestly, I came out of school doing graphic design work. I changed from music industry into graphic design halfway through school. And I don’t do any graphic design work anymore, right? I loved it. I still love design. I get jealous of all the beautiful design I see. But now what I’m doing is different and I love it. And I didn’t go to school necessarily for this. I’ve got a lot of training doing it and experience, but it’s just something that finding that is so fulfilling.

And if I would have done it a little bit earlier, I don’t regret my path at all necessarily. I think it was beautiful. It served me well and served my family well. But I think that there are a lot of people that aren’t served well by doing the things they think they ought and should do.

Hillary Spiritos (38:54:067)
Absolutely. I think, I mean, asking young people and even like children, what do you think you’re going to, what do want to be when you grow up is a very interesting question, not necessarily helpful. And then every time you see someone asking, so, what do you do whenever you meet first question when you meet them, that’s not helpful and sustains that. I also think that I have a lot of clients who speak to a lot of young people in general who feel like I have to make a decision so that I have to so I have something to say to people when they ask. Because if I say I don’t know, or I’m trying to figure it out, that that’s embarrassing to them, or they feel like that sounds like they’re lost, or that sounds like they’re behind or they should know there’s some idea that you should know by now, which isn’t kind of helped by the idea that there are 20 year olds on social media who are making billions and supposedly living their best lives or whatever.

And it’s also not helped by this idea that there is one path and then everything else is like a weird path that someone else is taking, even though most people are taking their own paths and there’s no such thing as one and then a weird one. And I would also just say that, like, I have a lot of people, there are a lot of people who feel like I’m going to make this one decision and then I’m done, right? I’m going to choose to study business and then I don’t have to make any other decisions about my career ever again. And I can just exist on that path. That’s not how life works, right? Like I also don’t work in the industry that I studied in college. So, the idea is to embrace the pivot and try to recognize, ooh, I’m growing out of this thing, or maybe I lost my job, and I have to figure something else out or whatever it might be. Life is hopefully long. And things are going to change, you’re going to change careers at least once in your life and you have to learn, this is what I help clients do, is learn to make those choices. Learn to look inward and ask themselves who they are, what they want, what they want their life to look like, what they’re capable of, what they’re passionate about, all of these things, so that the next time this happens, and it will happen, whether life makes it happen or they make the change, they won’t necessarily get tsunami by emotions and judgment and fear, and they’ll be able to, or they will for a moment and then they’ll be able to make those decisions the next time.

Skot Waldron (41:22:000)
I mean, it’s really tough and I don’t necessarily blame them for not wanting to make any more decisions. I mean, since they’re young, they’re constantly being asked to make decisions. Decision fatigue is for real. And when you’re in school, I went, you know, my kids in eighth grade and my other kids in 10th grade, we went to their open houses today and it’s full of decisions. Like, are you going to take these AP classes? Are you going to drop this one? Are you going to do that one? What are you going to do for your extracurriculars? Are you going to do that?

Like it constantly pressuring to make decisions and college kids, there’s what you’re going to be your career. And that’s a big one. I mean, it’s like, hey, this is what you’re going to be for the rest of your life. And so now they’re like, oh my gosh, I have to make the right decision. Cause I don’t want to be miserable. And I want to be, I want to have money to sustain myself. And there’s a lot that goes into it. So, I get it, but you know, there’s, got to understand that, you know what you’re probably, I’ll ask a room full of people. I will say, how many of you in this room are still doing the thing that you graduated, you like you’re doing the thing that you got a degree in? A very, like it’s less than probably 30%, right? In that room.

Hillary Spiritos (42:34.576)
Absolutely. And I would also venture to say that none of those questions or none of those choices are irreversible. So, I changed my major when I was in my junior year of college. I worked for six years in that industry and then went to grad school. Like, and now I’ve changed and done something else. Like, I mean, you can take a leave of absence from school and come back. You can transfer schools. If you break up with someone, you can talk to them and potentially like reconcile. You can like, there are all these things. Some decisions are irreversible for sure, but that doesn’t mean that your life is over. So, I think it’s really important to recognize that. I mean, phrasing the question, what do you want to do for the rest of your life? If a college is saying that is unhelpful and incredibly full of pressure, but to recognize that, actually, I’m just going to make the decision that works and feels right for me now with the information that I have. And that’s all I can do. And you don’t actually know if any other decision would have been better. Right? Like, I make this decision, I can try to imagine if the other decision would have been better worth of the same. I will never have an opportunity to know that. So, like, is it worth my time? How does it serve me to think about that?

So, I think it’s really, these are the questions that we want to figure out and like start practicing and rewiring our brain. And we want to also get out of our brains and into our hearts a little bit and start like not over-complicating it and really just feeling like, what do I want to do right now? What will make me excited and want to go to work? What will make me excited to go to class? What will make me excited? Like I know what makes me so excited is to talk with young people. I could do that all day, every day. I love it. It sustains me. I love it. Like, that’s amazing that I get to do that on a regular basis. So, it’s like, what is it? And you might have; I didn’t do that originally. You had to figure that out. I had to go trial and error, right? So, and it allows yourself to do that without judgment.

Skot Waldron (44:53:000)
I think that’s really good advice for anybody of any age. I think that that’s really really important for them to do. So, we’re going to wrap this thing up, but I have a rapid-fire segment for you. You ready for this one?

Get ready for this one. OK, overrated or underrated?

Hillary Spiritos (45:11:726)
Can it be rated correctly or no?

Skot Waldron (45:16:000)
What do you mean?

Hillary Spiritos (45:17:000)
Like can something just be like, okay, fine. I’ll just do it underrated or overrated.

Skot Waldron (45:21:038)
Overrated, underrated. And then if you have something else you want to expand, you’d be like that one, Skot. That one, I would say this. OK. It’s fine. You’re not going to get like a buzzer or anything.

Vision Boards.

Hillary Spiritos (45:33:000)
I think they’re underrated or rated. I think people like them. I think they’re great.

Skot Waldron (45:39:000)
Networking Events.

Hillary Spiritos (45:43:000)
I don’t think they’re underrated. I think people recognize their worth. I think a lot of people get jobs from meeting people. I think maybe the way you’re doing it depends if it’s sterile in a sterile environment or not. That could be tricky, but I think meeting people is always great in your industry or not.

Skot Waldron (46:06:000)
Okay, Taking Gap Years.

Hillary Spiritos (46:09:000)
Underrated. I think it’s I’m all for it. Great.

Skot Waldron (46:16:000)
Career Coaching from AI.

Hillary Spiritos (46:19.335)
Overrated. I don’t think AI should be involved in that.

Skot Waldron (46:25:000)
Hustle Culture.

Hillary Spiritos (46:29.335)
That’s interesting. I think that people shouldn’t have to work multiple jobs. I think people should be able to have a livable wage. I think that side hustles and passion projects and trying new things and engaging in multiple activities and expanding your ideas and getting out there is all great. But I think that like the need to do it because you can’t live on the wage that you’re making and you don’t have healthcare or whatever it might be is just disgusting.

Skot Waldron (46:59:000)
I think I have one more, I think you can answer this one already. You ready? Asking your parents for career advice.

Hillary Spiritos (47:11.335)
Ask anyone you want, but recognize that they are not you. So, take it with a grain of salt.

Skot Waldron (47:20.63)
Amen. Good job. All right. If people want to find out where you are, what to do, where do they go?

Hillary Spiritos (47:35.335)
Absolutely. So, my website is batouttahell.net and my TikTok and Instagram are bat.outta_hell. And contacting me on any of those ways you can, we can schedule a consultation call where you can meet me and talk about more of my work. And then we can go from there. You can schedule an actual like hour appointment and start there. Or you can just like kind of we can start up a dialogue and see what works for sure.

Skot Waldron (48:08.000)
Super awesome. I love it. Thank you for being on here. I think I liked the way this interview went because we’re talking, you know, to the people that are hiring younger individuals, but we also talk to the younger individuals. So, to help the older individuals empathize and understand. So that I really, the whole thing of empathy, empathy precedes action. If we can empathize and really understand each other, I think that this is going to be so much better. I don’t need 10 tips to work with Gen Z.

I need to understand where Gen Z comes from so I can learn to understand and work with them better, right? It’s not like, you know, use this Slack trick to make sure that Gen Z understands. I mean, I don’t need that crap. I can find that on Pinterest, but it’s like the work comes in truly empathizing and truly understanding who we’re working with.

Hillary Spiritos (48:57.526)
Right. That’s exactly right. Those lists are great, but they’re not going to help you understand the actual person. Also, every person is different. So, it’s not like that those lists are even going to resonate with anybody. Also, people can see through those Slack tricks. Just so everybody knows, it doesn’t make you like hip and cool.

Skot Waldron (49:20.000)
Seriously, because I really thought I was doing well, you know, like I really did.

My kids remind me often how uncool I am. So hey, no, they don’t. I’m a super cool dad. We do all kinds of cool stuff. We just took them to their first punk rock show last week. We went to see The Descendants and it was awesome. So, they loved it. I got to take them into the mosh pit, like a real mosh pit. And it was like, they really like, we’re like, dad, don’t worry everybody. I was holding an arm. We were linking arms, and I was fending off everybody, but they like it was adrenaline it was like they got to experience it I said I hope you all realize how cool your dad is and they said we do so it was.

Hillary Spiritos (50:05:000)
Well bribery never helps, I mean never hurts.

Skot Waldron (50:08.032)
It’s all good. Hey, Hillary, you’re awesome. Thanks for being on. Keep doing the work. You know, I think it’s super important.

Hillary Spiritos (50:15:000)
Thank you so much. I had a great time talking to you.

Skot Waldron (50:21.294)
I hope you’re ready to live your fullest, most fiercest, most authentic life and whatever that means for you. Okay. And, and the word fierce, I think is really good to understand how you put that into context. Being fierce, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be aggressive. It doesn’t necessarily mean you have to just stick it to the man, right? It’s like, the woman, it’s just, how do we live a life and really take it control of what we are and who we are and what we want to be. I would say that who do we want to be? Not what we want to be, but who do we want to be? That was interesting talking about what we ask kids. What do you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to be when you grow up? Now it’s fun to think about that, to dream about it, to see what the aspirations are, whatnot. But I think a bigger question to ask our children, everybody, is who do you want to be when you grow up?

What kind of person you want to be when you grow up. There’s something there that I think it doesn’t matter what they are job wise, who they are is going to matter a whole lot more. And so, if we can teach that to our kids, I think we will go a long way. I think it’s really important. The whole loyalty point that she brought up was really interesting to me. And I agree with her.

Younger generations have seen their parents getting laid off. They’ve seen, you know, COVID happen and there was a ton of layoffs and people have suffered and financially it was tough. And so they’re like, well, I saw that happen to them. And now they’re complaining that I’m not loyal. Like, ah, I see them as looking for that bottom line. And so, what are we communicating to these generations y’all? Are we saying we’re for you? Like, hey, we developed these culture programs, but we kind of still, you know, we’re going to have huge layoffs and layoffs and layoffs and layoffs. I don’t know. It’s going to be tough to keep those people, retain those people that are going to continue to build our companies because we need them. We need them. So, thank you, Hillary, for being on. The work you’re doing is gold, so keep it up.

Skot Waldron (52:36.45)
If you want to find out more information about me or check out the show notes where there’s going to be more information and links to the things referenced in this episode, visit skotwaldron.com. And lastly, I’m asking for a little bit of love, just a little bit. So please take a moment, follow, rate the show, the algorithms like that. It helps me get the word out. I really appreciate it. Thank you. And until next time, stay on Unlocked.