Unlocking Purpose Over Passion With Tanveer Naseer


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Episode Overview:

"Unlocking Purpose Over Passion With Tanveer Naseer" is a transformative guidebook that challenges conventional wisdom by emphasizing the significance of purpose over passion in one's personal and professional journey. Authored by leadership expert Tanveer Naseer, this book delves into the essence of discovering and aligning with a deeper sense of purpose as the cornerstone for fulfillment and success. Naseer navigates through practical strategies, anecdotes, and reflective exercises, encouraging readers to shift their focus from fleeting passions to enduring purposes that fuel sustainable growth, resilience, and impact in various aspects of life. By providing actionable insights and thought-provoking perspectives, the book inspires individuals to unearth their true calling and harness it to create meaningful and purpose-driven lives.

Additional Resources:

* Website

Skot Waldron (00:01.426)
Yes, here we are. I'm excited to talk to you. This is gonna be fun.

Tanveer Naseer (00:06.253)
It's gonna be a lot of fun, I'm actually looking forward to this.

Skot Waldron (00:09.13)
I know I thought we've been on the phone now for a little while. We should, oh phone. Do we use phones anymore? We have been on the call now for a little bit. And I'm like, we should record. You know, this conversation because it's good and we're having fun. So let's do it.

Tanveer Naseer (00:26.609)
Well yeah, absolutely, let's do this.

Skot Waldron (00:28.85)
Okay, so here's your thing. And I, I want, I'm not going to try to tell you what your thing is, but the, one of the first initial things that's yours is that Ted talk that I was watching and on your website and I'm going, all right, this guy's spinning something here, this whole idea of purpose and passion in this intersection of the two and the distinguishing between the both and I want to, I

I think it's really interesting. So I want everybody else to hear your thoughts about this. They can watch your Ted talk. They should watch your Ted talk. Cause it's really thought provoking. I want to hear what your thoughts are on this idea of passion versus purpose.

Tanveer Naseer (01:12.889)
Yeah, sure. I mean, again, it's one of these things that you hear a lot. And I'm glad to see actually there's been a lot of pushback. I get this idea of following your passion because, you know, even just from a scientific perspective, look, we also even know this anecdotally.

Passion sustains us only for a short period of time because we get excited about something with something new. It's novel It's unfamiliar and that really that taps into our sense of curiosity We want to learn more want to master it want to gain confidence on about our abilities and understanding of it But once you gain it

You start to lose interest, right? It's no longer something mysterious. It's no longer something, you know, oh, I don't know about that. I don't know if I could do that. Once you've mastered it, it becomes less of something you really want to invest your time in. And the thing I always tell people too, is we shouldn't be walking around this life of ours thinking we only have one thing we're passionate about. We should have multiple passions, but we really only have one true purpose. This is the thing that, you know what, you'll have a day where you have to do the most mundane task.

or you're dealing with a headache, you're dealing with a problem, but you don't mind because you know this is what you're meant to do. This is the thing that keeps you going. And that's the thing I think that we have a problem. We look at passion. Passion is supposed to be this thing we love, right? It brings us joy. We're happy to do it. It's not supposed to be something where it's like, oh, you know, we got to deal with this task and so forth. That's not what passion drives. Passion taps into the pleasure centers of our mind. Purpose, it's not about.

It's about feeling like we're making a difference, that we're doing something with our uniqueness, our skills, our experiences, our insights, our perspectives, our personality that helps to make things a little bit better. We're creating value, not just for ourselves, but for those around us. And so I think that's when we understand the value of purpose. And I was just reading, in fact, a study that was just released where they found that a lot of organizations are now recognizing.

Tanveer Naseer (03:17.637)
how critical it is to ensure that they are driving their initiatives through a purpose lens. So there is a lot of studies and facts that are backed up. I'm just glad to see since that Ted talk went out that we're starting to see more people appreciate and realize just how important this is.

Skot Waldron (03:35.322)
Amen. There is, uh, I was doing a workshop yesterday with a team of people, um, working on their vision, mission, values, things. And I always put purpose in there too. Like it's always a foundational element of that. What I call a brand foundation is understanding how you build upon those things and so incorporating that into there, it was, and they're having a little bit of difficulty though, at the beginning, thinking purpose, like

They kept going back to, well, our purpose is to solve our problems for this specific industry and to do this thing. And I'm going, not really. Like it's bigger than that. There's it's like, it's not, it's not this, like for this industry, this product, this thing, it's, it's probably bigger than that. What, what do you say to people that start?

Tanveer Naseer (04:19.03)

Skot Waldron (04:32.042)
Maybe not really understanding what to do, maybe in their purpose, in their jobs, they're sort of thinking about, well, I do IT security and my purpose is to make sure that people are safe when they surf online and all these things were going, well, kinda like, what do you say to that?

Tanveer Naseer (04:50.625)
I think the reason that somebody must struggle with purpose is because it's very hard, it's aspirational, right? It's about at the end of our process, at the end of our journey, like once we decide, okay, I'm done with this chapter in my life, whether that's that you're gonna retire, whether it's you're gonna take on a whole different career, it's that at the end of that journey, you've accomplished something. And I think too many times we focus on goals, right? I need to make sure we, like you said,

that we're solving this problem for these clients in this industry. Okay, that's got a finite shelf life because eventually you will solve that problem and they'll be happy. And then, oh, now that problem solved, now we have this problem. Could you help us solve that? So does that mean now your purpose has to change because now you have a different problem or that you don't have a purpose anymore because you've solved that problem. So now your reason for being ceases to exist.

And so I think this is where we struggle a lot because it is a little ethereal in a way, because you are talking about essentially why we do what we do, which can't be just that concreteness, which we do need, right? That gives us a guidance, that gives us a direction of where we're supposed to go, but it's not the aspirational of why are we here together? Why are we committing everything that we're doing? Because look, that pain point you're trying to address, it might be the key point now.

But there might be a technological development that comes up that makes that issue obsolete or irrelevant. We've seen this type of dramatic change since the pandemic started, right? We had the pandemic. We had to learn how to develop and do our things in a virtual setting. Now everyone's consumed with AI. Prior to that, we were all talking about the metaverse. Remember that, folks? That was the thing. We're all like, oh, we got to figure out how we're going to operate in this metaverse. Who knows what 2024 and beyond will be the other things?

But those are just different pain points that we have to define goals to, but that's not the purpose. This is the overarching thing that irrespective of what challenges our customers, our clients face, this is the true north that remains true through and through.

Skot Waldron (07:04.322)
So in your Ted talk, you talk about this idea of passion and then really understanding that you're doing something that maybe you're passionate about, but it was missing the mark. And then you met and found your purpose where people would be like, well, that doesn't sound that fun. And you're like, well, but it filled me. It was something that filled me. So talk about this intersection of can we have

Tanveer Naseer (07:28.559)

Skot Waldron (07:33.262)
Passion without purpose and can we have purpose without passion?

Tanveer Naseer (07:39.197)
Oh, I think one things that we often tend to confuse is we think passion is the driving force as opposed to thinking of passion as being the consequence or the result of us doing something. Like people will often say like, love what you do and do what you love, right? We've all seen that phrase. I think the variant we have to understand here is that when you're doing your purpose, you're going to have

great days and on those days you're gonna be passionate about what you do, but there are gonna be days where the work you do is like, it has to be done, but you're not gonna be passionate about it. I'll give you a perfect example, it's taxes. Look, we all have to do it. My company, I gotta do my taxes. I gotta get all my documents in order. Look, I'm not passionate about it. I'm not excited about waiting for my accountant to send me, okay, I'm gonna need this form, I'm gonna need that. I'm gonna need this, we gotta verify that, and such and so forth. It's what I need to do, because that's my purpose.

But when I'm going off to give a workshop or I'm giving a keynote and I get these questions from the leaders, okay, I love this idea. So here's a challenge I'm having, how does that apply? And helping them connect the dots between what I'm sharing and their day-to-day reality, that's still my purpose. But that's when I get passionate, I get excited about what I'm doing. So we have to recognize that passion is not the goal. Passion is the end product of us doing

our purpose-led work, because there will be days where, yes, this is what I'm meant to do and I'm so excited and so passionate about this and so forth, but there's other days where you're going to be doing stuff that is necessary to you fulfilling your purpose, but isn't as engaging, but that doesn't stop you from doing it because you know this is what you need to do to get to the work that's going to make you feel that sense of passion.

Skot Waldron (09:32.11)
Okay. So purpose, are you saying the purpose leads to passion? Possibly like.

Tanveer Naseer (09:38.473)
I, yeah, it does lead to it, but as I said before, you can have passion outside of, uh, what you do is work and you should, like, I mean, I'll put you, I'll give you a great example. So this year I started learning how to play the drums. So what does that got to do with the work I do as a leadership keynote speaker and corporate trader? Absolutely nothing. And yet it is a newfound passion of mine. I absolutely.

love playing the drums. In fact, my family's been bugging me saying you got to find a band because you're starting to get really good. And I'm like, No, I don't want to. I I'm doing this purely for myself and they say, Yeah, but you should see the your face. You got such joy and elation when you're just playing the drums and you're coupling it to one of your favorite rock bands from the 80s or whatever. And I'm like, Yes, because I'm doing it for my own sense of passion, right?

But that doesn't mean it has to be something I have to take and then do something with it. It could be just purely for myself. And that's one thing that I'm passionate about, right? But it's not connected to my purpose. So we have to make sure we disentangle the two, that you can have multiple passions, but then you have a purpose. And in that purpose, you will find moments of passion and you will find moments of joy. You'll find moments of elation.

You're also going to find moments of hardship, moments of difficulty, but you're going to go through those because this is what your purpose is all about. So I think we shouldn't think that, okay, if I follow my purpose, then I will find passion in my life. No, you can, purpose will give you passion because you will find that what you're doing is a purpose you will find that you'll get passionate about it. But I think we also have to understand that you should find passion outside of your purpose because that's what gives us.

the kaleidoscope of colors that makes up our lives and the things that we need to just give us a sense of joy outside of our work and our ability to do stuff that's just uniquely for us. And it doesn't necessarily have to create value for others.

Skot Waldron (11:41.71)
Okay. Do you believe in purpose statements?

Tanveer Naseer (11:46.577)
Um, I'm going to say not necessarily just because I don't have one. I mean, if someone were to ask me what my purpose, I do say in my Ted talk, what, what I say is my purpose. And the funny thing too about that Ted talk was it got inspired by a question. I got asked by a leader, uh, after one of my leadership keynotes. Um, and it was because the question that they asked, I had never had reflected on it. So.

I don't think you need a purpose statement. I think you just need to have clarity about what is your purpose. That you can, if someone were to ask you, you could clearly state it. One of the things I always tell my kids when they were younger was to show you understand something, make sure you could explain it to a five-year-old. And they know that from example, because when they were younger, they'd have a problem with their homework. I'd always ask them to explain it to me.

And at first they would say, yeah, but you understand this. You're an adult. They said, no, no. But I just need to understand what, because the teacher might have said something to you differently or something. So just explain to me what you understood this problem. And as they go through the process of explaining it to me, they're explaining it to themselves and invariably they get that moment of clarity where I understand what I need to do. That's what you need to do. So I wouldn't say, okay, I have to have a formal purpose statement.

put it on parchment paper and frame it on the wall. I think you just need to have that ability to be able to explain your purpose to someone else where when you say it out loud, it just rings true to you. As like, yes, that's really what I'm driven to do.

Skot Waldron (13:10.487)

Skot Waldron (13:26.562)
So for people that, of course, everybody's going to go watch the TED talk, but what is it? What's your purpose? What connect? What drives you?

Tanveer Naseer (13:36.857)
So the interesting thing here, this is what will help set it up. So my background is not, I don't come from the corporate world. I'm actually educationally trained as a pathologist. I graduated from McGill University's medical department as a pathologist. And my driving force was to help people improve their health. Pathologist focuses on disease management. So this was how do we help people improve their care?

From there, I ended up working again in the hospital, but in the IVF clinic. So there I was working to help people deal with infertility issues. So here I was trying to help people live the lives they want to live. They wanted to become parents. They wanted to start that unique chapter in their lives. Now as a leadership, I'm helping leaders to how do I become better? How do I become that better leader that brings out?

those the best of my employees that makes them feel empowered to deliver their best because they care about the work they do, because they see that I care about them and their ability to succeed under my care. So in each of these cases, you can see that the underlying thread is I want to help people improve their lives. I want them to help them do better in what they're doing. So that's my purpose. And the purpose is now being articulated. And how do I create help leaders create?

a better workplace environment that allows people to truly shine and do their best work.

Skot Waldron (15:05.506)
Okay. That works. I approve. Well done. You need my approval.

Tanveer Naseer (15:10.502)
But it's not on parchment paper, Scott. I'll tell you that.

Skot Waldron (15:13.878)
Ah, I don't know. I don't know. That just says that you're not ready to commit. Is that what it says? As soon as you put it on parchment paper, Tanvir, you are committed to that purpose. I think it is. No, no. Parchment paper is good. You're fine. You're fine with the parchment paper. All right. For granted, it's too expensive. So don't worry about that. Um, no, that's awesome. I, I really value that. I think that there's a.

Tanveer Naseer (15:19.297)

Tanveer Naseer (15:24.385)
Well, is it parchment paper or is it more if I were to put it in granite? You know, if I was to put it in granite. Okay.

Skot Waldron (15:43.766)
You know, you seem more like a loosey goosey kind of like, you know, do the feeling thing. It's the feeling thing. We don't need to like emblazon it on our wall and doing all this other stuff. It's like, you wanna do that? That's cool. But you know, it's something that you can communicate that when I love that you said, when you say it, it lights you up. When you say it, it's like, yeah, that's it. Like that's my thing, you know? And it's that feeling that we all get. And then when you see it happen,

Tanveer Naseer (16:03.724)

Skot Waldron (16:13.834)
It just confirms that it's that thing. Yeah. So I think that's awesome.

Tanveer Naseer (16:17.837)
Yeah. And, and the thing too, that people should see is once you communicate that it like, it's like a puzzle piece falls into place, a critical puzzle piece. And they go, Oh, now it makes sense. Why you did that, why you were invested in trying to do this or trying to help with that and so forth. I understand you now. I see what drives you. I can understand. Cause it was curious to me. You seem like maybe you were a really generous guy or you were like a.

uh, you know, really invested in this process. I was trying to figure out what was your motivation. I understand it now because the actions you're doing makes sense to me now, because I see it within that frame you're now providing me. And so I think this is where people also can help understand that when you define your purpose, you see it reflected in your actions and people better understand where you're coming from, right? They can see why you're now driven to do certain things, why you care about certain things and why you're.

wanting to learn more about these things because they clearly see it's tied to that purpose. It's not about that passion, right? Because you can get excited. Like right now, I think a lot of people are like really fascinated by chat GPT. Will we be fascinated by chat GPT in two years? Probably not. Not because it won't be there, but because our passion and our fascination will, it will have waned for a lot of us and we'll find some other shiny object to get obsessed over and so forth.

try to say, okay, I really have invested. I wanna read books and read articles and 10 webinars because I'm really fascinated to learn more. And there's nothing wrong with that. Again, nothing wrong with that because that's a passion, right? And we're entitled to have those, but we should really also understand what is our unique purpose that it doesn't matter what time of day it is, what year we're in, this is really what drives our actions and our behaviors.

Skot Waldron (18:07.65)
What do you think about, so Simon Sinek's work, familiar with Simon, I'm sure. The idea of the, you know, find your why and the whole why idea, the golden circle, things like that, do you tie that into purpose? Are they synonymous or do they work together? What do you think about that?

Tanveer Naseer (18:13.242)

Tanveer Naseer (18:32.057)
I think they work together because I think Simon's Golden Circle, it helps you elucidate what your purpose is. I mean, look, after I gave my TED talk, I remember at the cocktail party afterwards, I had one person come up to me saying, I'm so, so fascinated by your story. And I love the ideas you shared about how do we find our purpose. And I was thinking about that. And I don't really think I have a purpose.

And she said, it's a little bit discouraging. And I said to her, I started to sponsor, look, I don't know you, but I can tell you a hundred percent you have a purpose. So would you mind if I ask you a series of questions? And I started asking a series of questions and her husband was standing next to her. And I was going through these serious questions, asking about her work experiences of asking about a project that she really got excited about. And she was really like, you know, really thinking about it. Like she'd be like, Oh my God, I just had an idea. I was just going to scribble this down. I don't want to lose this thought. I want to bring it up in my meeting on Monday. And.

you know, like she was really engaged and she was taking the initiative when she saw potential problem and so forth. Then I'd ask her about another similar job experience and was it as enjoyable? No, how come? And so forth. And as I start asking these questions, I was glancing at her husband. Her husband first was looking at me like, okay, I'm not sure where you're going with this. About three quarters of the conversation through with a guy, he was beaming. And I think, and I, for one point, I kind of nodded at him, right?

And so then after she finished her whole giving me, answering my questions about her work history, I said to her, so remind me again, you said you don't really know what your purpose is, right? She goes, yeah, I wish I knew. Her husband started laughing. And I said to her, well, I hate to say it to you, but your husband and I both think we heard very clearly what your passion is, what your purpose is. And I elucidated her.

telling me, let me ask you this, if I were to have met somebody who said, they have it looking for someone who could do this type of a job, here's the requirements and this is what's needed in the role and I described it and her face was lighting up and she said, oh my God, that's like my dream job. That's what I'd love to do. And I said, remember, I don't know you, how could I know what your dream job is? And she looks at me like, that's true. And then her husband just starts saying,

Tanveer Naseer (20:53.101)
because of what he asked you. I said, you have the answers inside you. I just pulled them out. And when you reflect on them, which obviously your husband was able to do because he's watching as an outside observer, you then can identify what your purpose is. So I do think Simon's exercise of starting with that why, why do we do what we do? That's a critical point we all have to start, but I don't think many of us do start there. We all start with the what, right? What is it the problem we need to solve? What's gonna help us?

increased market share, what's gonna help us, you know, to beat our competition, what's gonna help us overcome any uncertainties about the economy going forward? And that's not the place we have to start. We have to start with why. Why do we do what we do? Why does this matter? Why do I care? Why does this make me want to wake up every morning, even on the darkest day, on the day I'm most tired and exhausted and wanna pull up and deliver my very best? I think when we start from there,

we can better get a clarity of what our purpose is, which is again, as I said, I could tell you from conversations that people, we all have, we just haven't given ourselves permission to take a moment and to think and reflect on our past work experiences to really identify those moments where we were able to do purpose led work, where we truly felt like we were delivering our very best.

Skot Waldron (22:14.658)
Okay, you tease me a little. I don't want you to give away your secret sauce. Here, Tim.

Tanveer Naseer (22:18.545)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Skot Waldron (22:22.186)
What is one of those questions that you use to like dig out somebody's purpose? Cause people are on this call and they're going, I don't have a purpose. I don't know what my purpose is. You know, they're listening to the show and they're like, I don't know. What, what do I do? And everybody right now, I'm just going to tell you 10 various going to help you. Unlock that purpose. Just a little bit, a little bit. Is that okay?

Tanveer Naseer (22:46.665)
Okay, absolutely. So first off, let's start with a mindset shift. And on this mindset shift, I want us to change how we understand what our strengths are. This is something I share in some of my leadership keynotes. When I talk to leaders about understanding what your employee's strengths are. What I want you to understand is, your strengths aren't the things you're good at.

Your strengths aren't the things your boss comes to you and says, I really need you on this project. I really need this assignment because the last few times I get into you really helped deliver the results. You really helped us. So it's not the things that you people come to you and give you praise for and show appreciation for. That's not what your strengths are. Your strengths are what strengthens you. OK. These are the things that.

It just lights you up. But you, when you hear there's this assignment and it requires this kind of work, you're front and center ready to volunteer. I'll take on that assignment. I'll take on that project. I wanna be a part of this team, right? You don't have it assigned to you. And you're even, you might be hoping, oh, I hope I get assigned to that project, right? That's something that's telling you this is a strength of yours because it's something that makes you

stand up and show up. Okay, once you've identified that strength, what you need to do is reflect back on your past work experiences and ask yourself, what were those projects? What were those assignments? And what were those teams that I worked on where I was so driven to deliver my best? Not because I liked my boss and I really wanted to get their appreciation. I wanted to get those words of praise. I wanted to get a positive

uh, performance review at the end of the year, what have you know, I did this because I knew if I showed up and delivered on that project, I could deliver the best product, the best result for that team for that assignment, for that project, you know, intrinsically, this is something that if I were to be given it and independent of any biases I might have about myself, about my workplace environment, I just know if I've, if all things equal, I was given this.

Tanveer Naseer (25:03.825)
I would give a result that would really help the company shine. What is that type of work? Now, once you identify that work, what was it about that work that made you feel like, oh, my god, I want to deliver my best? What is it about the work? It's not the what. It's the why, right? Why did this matter so much? And so go back two steps and say, well, OK, the end result leads to what, right? Well, it helped people.

accomplished this. It helped the company do that. Okay, and then why did that matter? Right? So delve deeper. And then once you say, Oh, well, it helped improve and made things easier for people. I knew I was helping people have one less stressor in their lives, whatever it is. That's where you then identify, Oh, so here's my purpose. I'm someone who's driven to help people do this. I'm someone who's driven to ensure safety protocols are that.

whatever it is, but you go down to that why, you'll unlock what it is that's your true purpose.

Skot Waldron (26:10.966)
That's good. That storytelling is really important. I have found as well as you get people talking and telling stories about when did that impact you and how did it impact other? And there's that framework of contribution impact. So what was the contribution you made? What was the impact it created and having people tell those stories and seeing how they light up or when they light up, like that guy was saying with his wife is just sitting there going.

There it is. And you're going, there it is, you know, and y'all are kind of nodding to each other. It's like, yeah, we see it. We see it. So then telling them to somebody else, because you may not be able to see it, but having them tell it to somebody else and say, Hey, partner up. You tell each other stories of when that impact happened and then go, Oh, there it is. Yeah. You see it. Um, so I think that's really, that's really critical. And I love that you brought the strengths thing in because that is something you hit on for like.

Tanveer Naseer (26:48.241)

Skot Waldron (27:03.914)
10 seconds in your TED talk. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna get him to talk about that. So, so glad you hit on that. Cause I think that's really interesting to think about. It's like, well, I'm really good at spreadsheets. Like that's totally a strength of mine. And you're going, okay, well, maybe, but like, I think there's more to it, you know, than you just being good at spreadsheets. You know, like what strengthens you in that process? So, really cool, really, really good stuff. How does...

Tanveer Naseer (27:26.489)
Yeah, absolutely.

Skot Waldron (27:32.486)
All of this work intertwined with, so your book, your podcast, the things that you're actively working on with your clients, whether you're coaching, uh, individuals or teams or speaking. I mean, how do you use this passion purpose work in your overall body of work?

Tanveer Naseer (27:53.141)
Well, I think what shows up is in how my work guides people. My focus is always on how do I help people do better? So I remember one of my favorite things I like to do is the end of my, even in the workshops, but even my, especially my keynotes, I like to have a question and answer period where I get people to share with me, what are the things that they resonate with them from my work, from my talk, my workshop.

And what are the unique pain points that they say, oh, I could see this helping me with this problem. How do I apply this, right? So it's no longer just like this nice, oh, I like this idea, but I'm not gonna do anything with it. No, no, let's put it into practice today. And so for me, a lot of times it's enjoyable to see.

How often leaders will say, okay, how do I do this? And I'll say, remember how I shared this idea. So here's your problem. So notice how the problem you might be thinking it's this, but if we pivot towards this perspective, you'll notice from your employee's perspective, it's really about this. And they start going, ah, I see it. But sometimes it's a rare time where I'll have a leader and I'll ask him a question, did this answer your question? And they go, not really. I said, okay, well, let's dive deeper, right?

And they dive deep and say, okay, well, give me a bit more context to the issue. They start giving me more context. Ah, now I can see they didn't, they focused on this thing, but by getting them to delve deeper, I'm starting to appreciate here's some of the issues, especially because the answer I gave, they realize that's what I'm focusing on. And I'm realizing the answer you're giving me is leading me not to really resolve the problem. So now I got to dig deeper and here's really what I'm noticing is probably the bigger issue. When they do that.

I give them another answer and then suddenly they go, I see the smile breakout and I'm like, let me guess that solves the problem. They're like, Oh my God, I think you helped me. This is, I'm writing notes because this is exactly I'm elated because I'm thinking, Oh my God, this conflict I'm having at work. I now understand why I'm having it and what I need to do differently to not just resolve it, but to make sure that we can collaborate better as

Tanveer Naseer (29:57.817)
colleagues as different team leaders. So this is fantastic. And when you get that, you get the feedback that your purpose of helping people do better is giving you that drive of, okay, I am adding value. So I think this is where purpose comes in because I've had work where someone will come and ask me, could you speak about this? And I'll say, no, I can't. And it's because it's not tied to my purpose. And they say, yeah, but you seem so good. You seem to be capable. Said, oh yeah, I am.

And I probably, there's a bit of passion I have involved in doing that. But is it my purpose? No, it's not. And I will redirect it, but there's someone I know who I'd love to put you in touch with because they could help you a lot with this. And they're like, really? That's great. Guess what folks? That's my purpose. I want to help people do better. I'm helping a colleague of mine who I really like land work, but at the same time, this potential client has an issue and I'm helping them solve it. When you have that clarity, what your purpose is.

it becomes easier for you to know where to put your efforts. So you're not just relying on that outside feedback. Oh, you seem so good at this. And then you go in and do that work and you just feel like, oh, I just wasted their time. I just didn't deliver. And you start to question your competencies because you're not delivering value. When you have that clarity of purpose, it makes it easier for you to know who are the clients you can help, which organizations when they invite you to come speak.

you're going to give them something that's going to add a value. And I mean, like the best feedback I always get is when the leaders who invited me say, we thought this was our problem. But after speaking with you and having you listen, we now realized that this was a problem. We're so grateful if you focused on that as opposed to what we thought you should focus on. Because now I could see the room is buzzing. Everyone's like, finally, someone's addressing the problem. We've all been seeing that no one wanted to admit was the problem.

And so that's what purpose does. It gives you that clarity. So you always know whether it's a one-on-one executive coaching or whether it's a keynote you're giving in front of hundreds or thousands of leaders, you're going to be delivering value because you know you're providing something that's connected to your purpose. It's why you do what you do. And it's that strength peaks that we brought up before. It strengthens you. And honestly, Scott, the thing I love too is how many people will tell me,

Tanveer Naseer (32:23.737)
Well, of course there's that energy, right? Especially because it's not my tax stuff that's related to my purpose. It's the part of my purpose that gives me joy. So they see that passion, that outward end result of how, my God, you're so passionate about this. Absolutely I'm passionate about this because it's my purpose. It's why I do what I do.

Skot Waldron (32:44.226)
Beautiful. Uh, leadership vertigo is your book. Um, give us a quick synopsis on that. If anybody's interested in that, they want to find out more how to get that. How did they do that?

Tanveer Naseer (32:55.429)
Sure, so leadership vertigo refers to this phenomenon, all leaders experience, which is a gap that exists between how we view our leadership and how our employees experience our leadership. And I think a great example we could see of it is the current debate over the future of work where so many CEOs are insistent, okay, we have to have everyone back in the office because this is what's gonna ensure our culture or we're gonna improve our collaborative abilities.

are we gonna ensure our creativity or innovation? It seems like the excuse changes every couple of weeks. And then you talk to the employees and they're like, no, what we need from our bosses, our CEOs, is to understand we need more flexibility in our lives because we have different demands and we wanna be able to deliver our best at work, but at the same time also be able to address our needs and wants in our personal lives as well. And so that disconnect where leaders are so convinced, no, no.

I know employees are gonna be happy to be back to work. They're gonna be happy to being around one another and talking and such and so forth, shows a disconnect that they're not really understanding the reality of their employees and the needs of their employees. So this is a leadership vertigo moment of what you view as being what your employees need from you is not at all the experience your employees having and what they really need from you. So that's what leadership vertigo is about. You can get it at any major book reseller out there. And it's also available as an audio book as well.

If you want, you can also find links to that on my website, tabannishear.com.

Skot Waldron (34:26.122)
Cool. And your podcast, let's not forget about that, Leadership Biz Cafe.

Tanveer Naseer (34:34.465)
Yep, I've been doing that podcast for 12 years now it's 10 plus years anyways. And I put out episodes every two weeks on Wednesday. It's going really strong. I love doing this podcast. I love the opportunity to meet with leaders and experts and have these fascinating conversations on leadership and how we improve our leadership craft. I also share my own series called Leadership

Tanveer Naseer (35:03.237)
bite-sized episodes that give you a strong dose, an espresso dose of leadership insight on how to prove your leadership craft. And you can find that on any platform where you listen to podcasts, whether that's Spotify, Apple podcasts, you name it, we're on pretty much every platform out there.

Skot Waldron (35:20.95)
Yeah, it's really cool. I love your format of sprinkling in the guests and then these like short shots. Like it's really smart. I mean, that's how we were talking earlier. That's how I like to digest information. That's how I put out information and that's how many new books formatted. And yeah, it's just so short little punches. I love it. So well done on that.

Tanveer Naseer (35:35.537)

Skot Waldron (35:45.102)
That's really cool. So I love your brain. I love how you're thinking about this stuff. I love how you're challenging the concepts and bringing the new light to these ideas that people talk about all the time, especially like passion purpose, passion purpose. And it's like, well, what do those things really mean? And your perspective on them is, I think it's enlightened me a bit. And I think that that's, I hope it's done that for others as well. So I hope people goes, checks out your website. You've got all these resources on there.

So if you forget where to get all this stuff, just go to the website and you'll find it. Um, so very cool to be here. It's so cool meeting you. Thanks for everything you're doing. Continue to help people do better and, uh, spread your stuff throughout the world, cause it's valuable.

Tanveer Naseer (36:31.937)
Thanks, Scott. I really appreciate that. And thank you so much for having me on your show. I really enjoyed this.


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