Unlocking The Secret To Effective Feedback With Jeff Hancher

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00:00 Cold open: Running from poverty, the military, and tin-can car floors
06:00 Being right vs. being effective. Only one wins in feedback
07:00 The nickel story: Poverty to GI Bill to first sales job
14:00 Feedback is gold… and fragile
19:00 The framework: Expectations, Feedback, Accountability
20:45 The mint role-play: Earning the right to give tough feedback
25:00 Picking the right tool: Supportive, Collaborative, or Directive
27:00 F.E.A.R. in leaders: Fallout, Emotion, Amateur moves

Jeff Hancher (00:02.53)
So, what I did was I joined the military, not because I’m a patriot, although I love our country. I was running from something, not to something. One of my chores was to cut squares out of the tin coffee cans and pop rivet them to the floor of the car so that, you know, snow and water and stuff wouldn’t shoot up at us.

So, I don’t need this stinking job. How dare you tell me when I just buried my mom, have a little dignity. But no, why?

Skot Waldron (00:34.882)
When I’m not hosting Unlocked, I’m speaking at events all over the world. I’m helping leaders and I’m helping teams communicate better. I’m helping them build trust faster and actually enjoy working together. I’ve spoken for companies like the Home Depot. I’ve spoken at national architectural firms. I’ve spoken for pharmaceutical company offsites. I’ve spoken at associations, you name it.

With 99% of attendees of all those events, over 1800 people have reviewed me at this point, 99% of them saying they got some value. That’s pretty awesome. Even the caterers have thanked me. And if they are thanking me and they’ve heard a lot of talks and they’re busy doing their jobs, that’s saying something. If you’re an event planner looking for a speaker who’s really easy to work with, trust me, I wanna be the last thing you’re worried about on event day. I’m gonna take care of you, and who actually delivers value for your audience that they are going to use on Monday morning when they return to the office, then let’s talk.

Giving feedback is an art and a little bit of a science. My guest today, Jeff Hancher, is going to talk a little bit about, I guess, the artistry side of it. We don’t get as much into the science side of it. If you want that, you’re going to get his book, his new book that just released. But Jeff, oh man, y’all are in for a treat. Jeff has a heart that is for people, for leaders, for everyone. And I think that you’re going to hear that in the authentic spirit that he brings to this conversation. It is so genuine and real. I sense it and his story is awesome. You’re just, I loved this interview. It was really good connecting with them. It gets a little soulful. You know, get ready to bring some tissues out if you cry easily. Some of that can happen too here.

But Jeff is a leadership expert. He’s dedicated to helping individuals and organizations reach their fullest potential. After starting at an entry-level position to try and support his sick parents, Jeff built a 20-year career in leadership roles with a Fortune 500 company. In 2020, he quit his job to build his own business dedicated to helping equip leaders to reach their full potential. He’s going to tell you that story here at the beginning. And it’s, it’s real y’all. It’s real. And some of y’all are going to be able to relate to this. And some of y’all, it’s just going to instill a little bit of hope. So, without further ado, here we come, Jeff.

Jeff, I’m excited and not the normal excited. I’m like the real excited because of just the connections we have so far and you just, you know, loving on my city. I love Atlanta and you just, you’re complimenting Atlanta so much. It’s like this guy’s in my sweet spot.

Jeff Hancher (03:43.53)
Yeah. One drawback from Atlanta is the traffic. Of course. I think if you get outside of, you know, all of that a little bit, maybe north to Peachtree Corners or Duluth, you know, you’re a little bit out of the chaos, but I love the city.

Skot Waldron (03:57.882)
That is true. The only, I will say we lived in Chicago for about seven years, and I was like, you know, people were always like, man, yes, Chicago traffic is bad, but Atlanta is crazy. I was like, okay, I get it. We have like eight lanes of traffic that’s congested. In Chicago, you’ve got a giant lake on one side of the city. So, everything’s coming from one side and you have a train in the middle and you have houses on the side. So, you can’t build sideways. So, they really only have like three lanes. And so, it’s a nightmare, man.

Jeff Hancher (04:32.53)
It is in Pittsburgh too. I mean, Pittsburgh isn’t, doesn’t have the volume, but if anybody is listening and has ever been to Pittsburgh, you know what I’m about to say. All of our traffic to downtown goes through a mountain and it’s two lanes, two lanes in two lanes out. And then as you get through the mountain, you’re crossing a river to Pittsburgh. So, it’s also chaos, but the nice thing about Atlanta, is it called the Peach Pass? Am I saying this right?

Skot Waldron (05:04.882)
Yeah man, you are so, you just move down here, man. Just move.

Jeff Hancher (05:07.53)
I’m telling you, like you have the Peach Pass. I’ve even heard that people will put mannequins in the passenger seat to, you know, fool the cameras so that they could be in that lane. So, I’m ready to go. I feel like I belong there.

Skot Waldron (05:24.772)
You even know the mannequin secret. You’re in, man. Okay, here’s the deal, man. What feedback would you give to the people that created a two-lane highway through a mountain in order to get to downtown Pittsburgh?

Jeff Hancher (05:45.53)
Well, first off, I would try to earn the right to tell them what I really want to tell them. Because here’s what I’ve learned about feedback, Skot, is being right and being effective are miles apart. And the goal is never to be right. The goal is to be effective. And so, I could sit with those politicians and architects, and we could be sitting in a big ivory tower in the corner office and I could say, you know what I think? I think you all made the worst architectural decision that you’ve ever made in your entire life. Do you see the chaos that’s being created? Do you know how many accidents are on the green tree hill every single day because of what you have done? And I would be right. And nothing would happen because they would be offended, might even kick me out of the office. But over time, if I started to develop rapport and ask the right questions and earn the right to their ears and to their heart, I might have a better chance of creating change. And so that would be my approach.

Skot Waldron (06:49.000)
I love it. Do you like how, you like how I did that?

Jeff Hancher (06:52.53)
I absolutely loved it. Yeah. You got you got me going. This is the topic I love.

Skot Waldron (07:00.000)
I know it is. And this is a topic I love. And I wanted to have you on the show for. But first of all, give us give us what you call the what you call the nickel story, whatever… Of your background. I want to hear I want people to hear how you even landed where you’re at.

Jeff Hancher (07:18.38)
Yeah, my background is the reason I landed where I landed, honestly. I grew up here in southwestern Pennsylvania, just south of Pittsburgh and grew up in, I’m going to say gross poverty because poverty would be like the state is supporting you, which we did have that. But then, you know, God love my parents, they made a lot of bad decisions, which made bad worse.

And when I say bad worse, I’m talking like at times no utilities. At times it was kerosene heater type living. You know, one of my chores was to cut squares out of the tin coffee cans and pop rivet them to the floor of the car so that, you know, snow and water and stuff wouldn’t shoot up at us. So, when I tell you it was some rough going, and the reason for it was I had a mom that suffered from lupus since she was a juvenile and a dad that suffered from osteoarthritis. So, both of them, from the time I was born, never worked a day in my life. So, it made things pretty tough. When I graduated high school, I didn’t feel like I was the college type. Even with all the support, I probably couldn’t even afford the books, but I knew I wanted more. So, what I did was I joined the military, not cause I’m a patriot, although I love our country. I was running from something, not to something. And I found myself in Fort Jackson, South Carolina, got there on my first ever commercial flight, was never out of the tri-state area day in my life. And my gosh, did that change me. I grew up really fast. It gave me the structure that I needed. I transitioned from the military. They had this thing called the The G.I. Bill, which meant I could basically go to college for free and get a lot of support. I’m like, you know what, let’s make a run at this. This, this had never been done in our family history. And I’m about to start college at a local university here in the Pittsburgh area. And I got a call from my dad that I had gotten many times, which was they’re sending mom home from the hospital in hospice. This time it was a little different though, cause he was having a leg amputated due to some serious infection.

My brother already had a career, so I put college on the back burner, and I went home and just tried to get everything established, get the nurses going. I didn’t have a real job because I was going to be going to college. So, I went and I bought a newspaper, Skot. That’s how we used to get jobs back in the day. And I didn’t have a lot of skills. So, I just picked one that I thought, you know, my grit and my country blue collar mentality would serve.

And I applied to be a truck driver at Cintas uniform company, picking up dirty clothes. And fortunately, they hired me and I thought, you know what, I’m going to do this for three or four months, help my parents pay some bills, get their prescriptions paid for, and then I’m going to head back to college. Well, that seasonal job ended up being a nearly 25-year career that led to 12 promotions and a life that I didn’t even know existed or was possible.

I felt like I was going to retire from that company based on gratitude and opportunity. And in January of 2019, I’m having lunch with my pastor, and he prompted me to start a podcast. And what I thought was a podcast that was going to serve our local community ended up reaching countries that I didn’t know existed. And that led me to my quote unquote calling and scared to death, white knuckled in December of 2019, I left the company that I loved in a pretty significant unvested stock portfolio and jumped out to spend the rest of my life serving people and helping leaders be effective.

Skot Waldron (11:07.000)
That’s pretty awesome.

Jeff Hancher (11:08.908)
That was a lot in a short amount of time. That’s the journey.

Skot Waldron (11:15.000)
Pretty awesome, man. I mean, you hear often about the people that break the cycle, you know? And you always wonder who those people are going to be and when you’re going to run into those people. And there’s always a story and it’s really inspiring, and it gives other people hope. And that’s what I think is so important.

I’m on the board of a nonprofit called Hope Dealers. And I have a shirt that I wear often when I have a keynote that I do around this idea. And whenever I’m around, I have that shirt on and I walk through the airport with that shirt on. People are always like, man, love your shirt. I love your shirt. I get more comments about that shirt than anything else because I think people crave it. I think we all crave hope and we all need it because when we don’t have much else, we’ve got hope. That I think is pretty awesome. Thanks for inspiring and instilling a little bit of that hope into the people.

Jeff Hancher (12:21.908)
Man, that’s… I love what you just said, Skot, because hope is. There’s times in some people’s life that that’s really all they have. And, you know, our success isn’t really about us at all. It’s really not, you know, whether you grew up in poverty or you didn’t, is irrelevant. What are our mission is, is to reach our potential because people are watching.

And when we had any level of success, we’re proving to the people around us, we’re showing them what’s possible. And that’s hope. Hope is what is possible. And if they could do it, then I know it could be done. This is 4-minute mile kind of stuff here, right? It’s like everybody tried for years and years and years. I mean, we had people drinking cheetah milk, right? To try to run faster. And then Bannister breaks the 4-minute mile, then everybody’s running a 4-minute mile. Why? Because they had hope. They had hope. And I love what you said. And that’s how I plan to spend the rest of my life.

Skot Waldron (13:22.000)
Cool. Keep doing it, man. Because we all need a little, we’re all hope dealers. You’re a leader, which we all lead somebody, whether it’s ourselves or somebody else, you are a hope dealer. As a leader, you are a hope dealer.

Jeff Hancher (13:37.908)
Well said.

Skot Waldron (13:39.000)
And I think that that’s crucial. You’ve got a new book that I do want to talk about the content and the idea behind feedback and what’s going on in there.

Why focus so much on just the idea of feedback?

Jeff Hancher (14:00.00)
I believe it’s a leader’s biggest opportunity is feedback. And statistically, we know that we’re not doing this well. How did I come to this before the book came a workshop? And it was during the onset of COVID. I’m three months into my entrepreneurial venture and the whole world shuts down. Well, I was losing customers, but I wanted to be fruitful and effective.

And so, I started to think about how can I help people solve their biggest problem? How can I help leaders? So, in my Fortune 500 role, part of my job was leadership succession planning. Who’s on the bench? Who are we developing? So on and so forth. I took all of my succession planning notes to determine what was holding leaders back. And the two in no specific order that kept showing up in years of data that I pulled – was a lack of emotional intelligence and a lack of challenging leadership. I felt like the emotional intelligence piece was pretty well talked about. But the feedback piece, and there’s some feedback content out there, but I’m like, I’m gonna take a whole different framework approach to this feedback thing. And that’s how the Performance Management Workshop was born.

When I thought about writing a book, I could not ignore this. And that’s how Firm Feedback in a Fragile World came about. And the fragile is this, we got quiet quitting that’s costing the global economy $9 trillion a year. We have polls that are telling us that 65% of leaders strongly agree that they give effective feedback while only 21% of their subordinates agree with them. There is a chasm here and it’s fragile.

You know, the quiet quitting, the gap between leader and subordinate. We have the great resignation. Everybody listening probably has an open requisition. Attracting talent is hard. Keeping top talent is hard. And so, we don’t want to rock the boat, but here’s what we do know. If you were to think of your Mount Rushmore of leaders that changed your life, meaning if it wasn’t for these four people on that mountain, I wouldn’t be who I am today.

Here’s the question. Were they tough on you? And the answer is yes. But did you know they cared? And the answer is yes. The book, the workshop, it is a framework to get from not just being tough but earning the right to be tough. That is transformation. And that’s what we talk about in the book.

Skot Waldron (16:42.006)
Hmm. Right up my alley. I love this so much. I was working with a project manager of a construction company, and I was coaching her and, talking about this idea of self-preservation and how self-preservation is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The thing that she’s afraid of is actually going to come to pass. And were talking about feedback and she got a review back from her people that reported to her. part of it, now this woman was fantastic. She loves her people, very giving, very for them in a lot of ways. And she got feedback though, from them that she did not provide good feedback or adequate feedback. And I was like, so what’s going on with that? And she goes, well, I equate feedback to negativity.

In her mind, the feedback she had received from her bosses or her managers throughout life was negative. It was always a negative thing. And she never wanted to be that type of leader. I don’t want to be the leader that pushes my people down. I wanted to be the leader that built them up and built trust. And I think that if I give feedback, I am giving something negative and then they won’t think so much of me.

And I said, well, how’s that working out for you? She goes, well, now I’m losing their trust because I’m not giving good feedback. So, I said, the thing you’re trying to preserve is the thing that you’re actually losing because you’re not giving feedback in the right way. So, and so go, go off that one. I want to hear all your thoughts.

Jeff Hancher (18:30.00)
Yeah, she is not alone. She is not alone. You know, our leadership style is built on our experience, our environments, our childhood, past leaders that we’ve had. Hey, by the way, you can learn a lot from a bad leader, right? But that pendulum can swing so far the other way that we become ineffective. Can you imagine nobody ever getting a speeding ticket, a fine ever? Never even heard of it.

But they’re speeding them at signs everywhere. Nobody would take those seriously. You know, the traffic would be chaos. People would be dying with head on collisions. It would be wild, but hey, everybody would be happy because there’s no speeding tickets being delivered. And what happens is we can go, if we had an aggressive boss, we can go push right to passive. And passive sometimes looks like sheet cake and cotton candy and ice cream socials on Friday. That’s the leader that’s liked and who doesn’t want to be liked.

But the goal of leadership is not to be liked. It’s to be respected. We do this through a simple framework, not easy, simple. Expectations, feedback and accountability. When you do it that way, the tough conversation that you have to have is welcomed and appreciated. And here’s a quick, quick role play to prove my point.

And Skot, we just met, but I think you’re a pretty good sport. So, this is for the listener. Skot and I are going to a convention in Nashville in a couple of weeks, and we’re going to have a booth there. And we’re going to be talking about our services and how we can serve people. And we’re in a planning meeting on how we’re going to dress, how it’s going to look. And I’m like, Skot, I’m ready to go. I love your passion around serving people. I think our elevator pitches down, I think we’re going to make big impact, but let me ask you this, Skot.

While we’re walking to our booth, if I were to smell maybe some bad breath or BO or anything like that, based off our conversation and where I know you want to go, would you want me to let you know?

Skot Waldron (20:43.79)
Absolutely.

Jeff Hancher (20:45.00)
Okay, well, I’m committed to doing that for you, Skot. You can count on me. Two weeks, we’re walking to the booth. And I say, Skot, a couple weeks ago, you asked me. And I got to tell you, I know you love coffee and man, there’s just a strong odor coming, but I got great news. And I pull a mint out and I hand it to you, and you receive it. And you say what to me.

Skot Waldron (21:14.80)
Oh. Man, thank you.

Jeff Hancher (21:16.00)
Hey, it’s my pleasure, man. This is gonna be a great day. Now you are showing up as your best self and we’re gonna make big impact. Now, role reversal. You’re behind me at the convenience store. We’ve never met, we haven’t talked. The same data. I can smell it. And I turn around and I say, sir, I wanted you to know that your breath stinks. You’re offended? You might slap me. You might say something like, who are you to tell me about my breath? Hey, you know what though? I’m right. Cause your breath has an odor. But in one scenario, I earned the right, and you said, thank you. In the other scenario, the data is exactly the same and I get punched in the nose. This is the difference. Whenever I understand why success is important to you, I give you feedback on that. And then there’s a level of accountability that that person that you’re leading says, I’m so grateful for you. Thanks for letting me know. It’s not that you wanted to hear that. Who wants to hear that? Nobody. But I just delivered a gift and you’re better for it. Now I have a level of gratitude. I have a level of loyalty. This is earning the right to have the tough conversation. Leaders, if we can create this framework, not only is it great for business, I promise you it can transform a life.

Skot Waldron (22:41.80)
Okay. I see what you did there. Set the expectation. Gave the feedback in the moment and the accountability, right? You handed the mint and said, I’m going to do what I’m going to do. And it may make you uncomfortable for a minute, but you know, it’s going to, we’re all going to be better because of it. Let me throw this wrench in your scenario. Okay. You turn around, you’ve given me the expectation.

Two weeks later, we’re walking down the hallway. You can smell the coffee breath. You turn around, Skot, remember, you asked me to tell you when something popping up, here’s a mint. I think you’re going to need it going in. And I turn to you, and I go, Jeff, you know what, dude? I think your breath also stinks a little bit here.

Jeff Hancher (23:49.00)
Yes.

Skot Waldron (23:42.80)
So, I turn, I get defensive. I start being like, man, you know, all of us can’t just have great breath, Jeff, You know, all the time. So maybe you should check your breath sometimes too, because you know what? It ain’t so great. In that moment, you’ve given the expectation. You give me the feedback and I unleash. Okay. Maybe I’m stressed because maybe I wasn’t doing so great at the booth or maybe something happened earlier that day with something else and I’m feeling it. How do you as a leader handle that in a moment of feedback?

Jeff Hancher (24:16.119)
Love it, love it, love it, Skot. Here’s what we talk about in the book and in the workshop is all feedback is not created equal. We talk about feedback types very similar to how you would think of a tool belt, right? Nobody is going to put a nail in wood with a screwdriver. You can, you could do that, but it just doesn’t make sense. The hammer was built for the nail, right? It’s the same thing with people, you know, cause what you just role played was somebody that is defensive, right?

And so, we have to know this is why time is important, which is why we talk in the book about one on one debriefs on a cadence so that we can build rapport. We can add value. We can create smart goals. We can create individual development plans. All of these things. While we’re doing that, we’re getting to know our audience, right. And we talk about three feedback types in the book. We talk about supportive, collaborative and directive.

When you know your audience, you get to pull that feedback type out of your tool belt. Because what I have with Skot maybe is a peak performer, high tenure defensive. I’ve seen traces of this in the past. Now is not the time for directive feedback. Now is the time for collaborative feedback. Cause what I need to help Skot do is come to that conclusion on his own to asking great questions. And we talk about the five accountability questions in the book.

And that’s exactly where I would go in that scenario is with the five accountability questions, not statements. Statements draw out defensiveness, direct feedback. Really it has a place, but it’s minimal. And it’s for the brand-new employee that’s being onboarded or it’s a time sensitive or safety issue. That’s direct to feedback. We can’t go collaborative with a new employee. Can you imagine sitting down on your first day and your boss is like, so what do you think we should do?

Like that’s crazy talk, right? However, you have that defensive peak performer, high tenure, and you start directive. What you become is a micromanager, which we all love those, right? No, we got to go collaborative or maybe supportive because if they went from here down to here, all of sudden, maybe it’s because they just found out that their mom has early signs of dementia or that their child is battling through substance abuse. Am I hitting a nerve here? Because this is the people we’re leading. These are real people, real things. If we can lead through that and understand all feedback’s not the same, we’re gonna hit the bullseye more often.

Skot Waldron (26:51.80)

What holds leaders back? What’s the biggest problem with leaders in giving feedback? Why do they struggle so much with giving really effective feedback?

Jeff Hancher (27:01.119)
It’s fear. Full stop. It’s fear. And let me talk to the leader that’s like, well, you aren’t talking to me. I’m tuning out because I have no problem telling people how I feel. That’s also not effective, right? But back to the what’s holding people back, it is fear. And we talk about the acronym fear in the book because it’s very real. You know, we’ve all been in that situation where we know we got to address an issue, and the chest starts to tighten. Palms get a little bit sweaty and we’re thinking about when I say what I’m about to say, such and such is going to happen. This is going to be their response. So, the F is Fallout. The F is fallout. I might ruin my reputation as the nice cool boss. I don’t want to ruin my brand. If I say this, they might think differently of me. Then here comes the E, Emotion. And emotion is if I say this to Skot, he’s probably going to throw a chair. If I say this to Joe, he’s probably going to cry. If I say this, and now we start thinking of all the emotion that could come with all of this. But then you have the A, which is Amateur, which is a big one. And this tenure has nothing to do with amateur. A-Amateur is they’ve never really been taught how to do this effectively.

And so, this is where the, call it as I see it comes in. That’s not always effective. And I can tell you from doing this workshop for years and even getting feedback on the book, there are people that have been in leadership 15, 20 years that are like, never heard it that way. I just do it this way. I’ve always done it this way. Now I can see it, it’s not effective. And statistically what we know, and through all my notes of succession planning, people aren’t being taught well how to do this.

Skot Waldron (28:58.408)
I almost have little tears running down my face right now. Like that was, that is gold because I feel, and it goes back to your example of when would you want me to tell you, you know, your breath sank. And I, and I’ll ask some leaders that too, because they’ll, they’ll let things go. They’ll let things go for a while. And I, and, you know, coaching a group of managers and I said, So when do you want your boss to tell you that you suck at your job? Like that you’re not doing very well right now. Do you want them to wait for your yearly review? Do you want them to wait six months? I mean, it’s that same principle.

Jeff Hancher (29:40.00)
Absolutely.

Skot Waldron (29:41.408)
And you know, clarity is kind. Some of us have heard that before. We don’t have to be nice necessarily. It’s not about being nice. It’s about being kind as a human. Am I doing you favors? Am I serving you? Am I serving your future? Okay. Short term pain. Cause a lot of people think about that, ah, it’s just really painful right now. Maybe I’ll just let it sit, right. But short-term pain will have that long-term gain over time that will, that will end up serving us if we do that. And you talked about brand for a short second. I talk about leadership brand all the time. And will people remember you in 20 years for giving them that feedback back in the day for being the liberator that you are, for being the person that was for them, that leader that pushed them, but also supported them, that challenged them, that was also there, that had their back. Like they didn’t let me off the hook, but I know that they were for me. You know what? That was awesome.

Jeff Hancher (30:50.00)
It’s powerful. You know, something you said, Skot, early in the episode was, man, I’ve heard how hard it is to break through that kind of life, you know, changing the generation you mentioned when you heard my story. And now we’re talking about this. Let me tell you, this is one small tidbit into why I’m so passionate about this concept.

So, I’m a truck driver picking up dirty clothes. And by the way, life was good. I was making $400 a week. We had benefits in a 401k. You kidding me? Like we are breaking records here at the Hancher house. But I saw these people that would walk around the office, Skot, they were dressed in nice suits and ties, and they drove these fancy cars. I’m sure you heard of them, Honda Accords. I mean, these things were like great cars. And I’m like, man, I need to look into what this whole sales thing is about.

I was winning awards. I was doing well as a truck driver, and I get my break into sales, and I sucked at it is the truth. And I had a leader, his name was Sean, who saw this grit in me, knew a little bit about my background, but just started pouring in the skill that you need to be in sales. had the effort and this guy would take me into the conference room after 5pm and role play with me and teach me interest creating statements and how to overcome objections. He would jump in the car with me and sit in sales calls, get back in the car, coach me. He would do a sales call. Let me observe the master. But wait, it didn’t end there. He also one day after lunch pulled into the Joseph A. Bank and started to begin to teach me how to look like a professional. This is a guy that got me a tie and took me into the men’s room and taught me how to tie a Windsor tie so that my buddy down the road didn’t have to tie my tie anymore and I have to pray it didn’t come undone. This is a guy that went way above and beyond normal. And I start having a level of success. I mean, we’re talking about moving my parents out of their one-bedroom apartment into a real neighborhood. The old Jeff would have said, you know what, Sean, I don’t need you. I don’t need this stinking job. How dare you tell me when I just buried my mom. Have a little dignity.

But no, why? Cause I knew he cared. And deep down, I knew he was right. And I didn’t know he cared because he was a nice guy. I knew he cared because he made the big deposits. And in this defining moment, he made a huge withdrawal. Think about what’s happened since that conversation. I get promoted 11 more times. I built a life that I didn’t know was possible. Multiple presidents clubs, a stock portfolio.

I’m not here to make this about me, but I can tell you this, if we talk much more about it, I could get emotional thinking about what my life might’ve been like if it wasn’t for a leader like that. That’s who we’re building. That’s who we need to be.

Skot Waldron (33:38.648)
I often will look at people like you after I hear stories like that and I will say, Jeff, who’s going to talk about you in 20 years just like that? Who’s going to talk about you as their Sean?

Jeff Hancher (34:13.00)
That’s right. That’s the Mount Rushmore.

Skot Waldron (34:15.648)
And you know what? I don’t think people necessarily, I want to ask people that question because I don’t think they think about it that way, right. I think they think about the fire of the day, the email, the project that just happened, the pressure of somebody who just dropped the ball, like whatever they’re thinking about in the moment is detracting them from understanding that they are creating an image or an impression of themselves and the minds of every single person they interact with.

And in 20 years, how are people going to talk about you? Are they going to remember you as the Sean that built them up? That was for them that pushed them, or are they going to remember you as the, what was the name of that guy? He never, I don’t know. Like he never really, I don’t know where he was. Forgettable. Yeah. We’re all here to make an impact and it will be a good one or a bad one. And let’s be remembered for the former.

Jeff Hancher (35:14.00)
Yeah. And the beautiful thing about all of this is it transcends a personality. It transcends skillset. It can be learned. Here’s the point of entry. Here’s the cost of entry. Genuinely want to see people win. Genuinely want to see people win. If you don’t genuinely want to see people win, do not take a leadership role. There is a place for you, and we appreciate you, but it’s like petting a cat backwards. Why would you.

The cat’s miserable, you’re miserable, you can, but nobody’s having a good time. If you don’t genuinely care for people, don’t go into leadership. But genuinely caring about people isn’t enough because you have to be effective. And all of this is learned. I didn’t know any of this. I’m the least likely candidate for success. And so back to hope and inspiration. Like just know the tools are out there. Get the tools, apply the tools, and be somebody’s Mount Rushmore leader. There’s a lot in the balance here that we need to get right.

Skot Waldron (36:20.014)
Freaking Jeff Hancher. I don’t know, man. I don’t know where you came from, well, I kind of know a little bit because you told us. But it’s you’re a gift to a lot of people and I hope that people realize that and I hope you realize that just in this short, you know, 30 minute segment, you’ve been able to bless me with some words of inspiration and wisdom and thoughts. And I say that genuinely because I’ve had a lot of people on this show and some of them have added that same thing and others add just really practical tips for stuff. I love the practical tip stuff, but this has been a little bit bigger picture for me. I thought we were going to get a little more tactical on the stuff. I think if people want that, they can read your book and dive into that a bit more. But I think what you’ve given me is in us as a bigger picture for what kind of leader we want to be and need to be.

And in the midst of giving feedback, making sure we’re not undermining our influence through how we do that, but making sure that we’re building our reputation and our influence through how we do that.

Jeff Hancher (37:30.00)
Yeah, well, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you for opening up your platform to help me amplify a message I’m so passionate about. And I hope today I maybe transform some thought, encourage some people. All the blocking and tackling and the fundamentals are in the book and beyond, right? Go get those things. But I know that change starts with self-awareness and desire. And hopefully I can draw, we were able to drop that seed for people to go chase this greatness.

Skot Waldron (38:02.698)
Amen, brother. OK, where do people get the book? I’m sure anywhere and everywhere.

Jeff Hancher (38:09.00)
Yeah, you can get it anywhere and everywhere. But if you want the free bonuses and the content and all the stuff that comes with it, go to firmfeedbackbook.com. Certainly you can go to Amazon and buy it, but they’re not going to give you the other stuff. If you go to firmfeedbackbook.com and just type in your email, we’re going to send you all of the extra bonuses. We didn’t write this book to check a box and say we did it. We wrote this book so that leaders could be effective.

So, whether you get the bonuses or not at the end of each chapter is some application activities. But when you go get these bonuses, we’re going to give you resources. And that’s really our heart. I’m easy to find Jeff Hancher like Jolly Rancher, but with an H. We also have a podcast, a website, live events all over the place. We’d love to partner and support people on their leadership journey to making bigger impact.

Skot Waldron (39:02.698)
You’re a rockstar man. Thanks for being awesome. I appreciate it.

Jeff Hancher (39:06.00)
Thank you, Skot and thank you everybody for listening in.

Skot Waldron (39:12.972)
You can be right, or you can be effective.

That’s what I want you to ask yourself next time you are bringing feedback. I want you to think about am I being am I just trying to make sure they know that I’m right? Am I just trying to make sure that I’m putting them in their place here? You see what you’re doing. You are rising raising yourself up above other people and that position of power if you need that in order to have confidence and if you need that in order to make sure everybody else respects you then that’s a problem.

And I hope you heard a little bit of that in this interview that when you are for people, you don’t have to worry about that. We start with the support side, helping people know I’m for them so that when I give the feedback, it’s, you know what? It doesn’t have to feel great for those people. I don’t have to love hearing that somebody doesn’t like my breath smell, okay?

But at least I’m going to know that they’re for me and they’re doing it for a reason. And partly that is because I’ve given them permission and asked them to do that, to make my life better and the people around me. I really liked this, idea, the framework that you talked about as the F.E.A.R Framework is really good. The fallout, are we afraid of the fallout? The emotion that’s going to come with it because maybe I just haven’t been taught well and, or is it the retaliation?

Are we afraid of any of those things? And that’s why we’re not giving feedback, but also how do we do that? Setting expectations, then giving the feedback, then holding people accountable for that thing. That’s crucial. So, I hope you’re all going to start to think about these things and understand that feedback in and of itself doesn’t have to be negative. Y’all it doesn’t have to be a negative experience, and it doesn’t have to be negative. Positive feedback does exist, okay, it does exist.

Most of the time, I will say, you’re like, yeah, I get that I’m doing that well, but I want to know what I’m not doing so well. Okay, when you have those people, we want to be better. So, let’s help people be better.

If you want to find out more information about me or check out the show notes where there’s going to be more information and links to the things referenced in this episode, visit skotwaldron.com. And lastly, I’m asking for a little bit of love, just a little bit. So please take a moment, follow, rate the show. The algorithm is like that; it helps me get the word out. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. And until next time, stay on Unlocked.